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In general, Coaches are tough and demanding. In this case, clearly, Alberto has crossed the line with Mary. But, how does one know if the coach is abusive or “t

In general, Coaches are tough and demanding. In this case, clearly, Alberto has crossed the line with Mary. But, how does one know if the coach is abusive or “that’s just how sports is, it’s hard and coaches are tough”? Wouldn’t this lead to weaker coaches that don’t push the atheletes but now are afraid of abusing and crossing the line? Please don’t take this as anything to do with the what happened with Mary - I am not condoning what Alberto did.

eckza 7y ago
In general, no. You said, yourself, that Alberto "clearly has crossed the line". He didn't cross the line by pushing her, as an athlete; he crossed the line by fostering a culture of emotional and psychological abuse, in the name of athletic performance.
ergothus 7y ago
> But, how does one know if the coach is abusive or “that’s just how sports is, it’s hard and no replacement for hard work”? Two comments - First, althetes are already tough and demanding to themselves. The kinds of tough coaches that need atent the same kind of tough I'd need to get my unmotivated self moving. Equating these kinds of "tough" is inaccurate. They need coaches that have insight and cover their weaknesses, not assholes. Second, I completely understand your logical approach - I've done it myself so many times. But I've started realizing that in doing so I'm supporting the status quo without evidence. I'm defending current injustices because of potential, hypothetical problems. What IF "this lead to weaker coaches that don’t push the atheletes but now are afraid of abusing and crossing the line"? While that's not the ideal, that sounds better than inducing eating disorders that destroy quality of life (and potentially, the lives themselves). I dont think that's a risk - my first point covers that - but if that is a risk, it sounds worth the risk. Certainly better than accepting the status quo because change MIGHT not be better in every measure.
- spectramax 7y ago
  Thanks for a detailed response, I know this is a sensitive topic. I was more curious from a new athelete's standpoint. Say, I am 14 years old, and say I want to become a world class athelete. Objectively, how does a new young athelete know if they are being abused or just "working hard"? There is literally no way to know if some authoritative figure as Coach is telling me to do something I don't like. The central question I have is how does a new comer sense and detect abuse so that they can take action? There is a lot of bullshit in Sports and Nutrition fields of study - partially because the data just isn't there but also because the lack of scientific method employed by people in this industry. Try searching for help on the internet for a sports related topic and you'll get everything and anything from tabloids full of bogus claims to rarely an linked journal from Johns Hopkins. Furthermore, we need to also think about this from a Coach's perspective. There are thousands if not hundreds of thousands of coaches around the world. What credentials and authority do they have to make their students do something, especially if there is not scientific or objective backing up the claims? On the other side, Coaches that are now in the business would be completely taken aback and question everything that they do to avoid potential unintended abuse. I have empathy for abused athletes and it has no place in the society. Just that it is important to understand both sides of the coin and not be riled up by emotions.
jmull 7y ago
On one hand you're saying "clearly, Alberto has crossed the line with Mary" and on the other you're suggesting this is perhaps unknowable. (...how does one know if the coach is abusive or “that’s just how sports is, it’s hard and coaches are tough”?) So which is it? Put another way: how did you know that in this case Alberto crossed the line?
- spectramax 7y ago
  Huh!? Mary is testifying for it based on the evidence collected by NyTimes. In general, I am not answering, but questioning - how does one know if they are being abused if "that's how sports is, it is hard and coaches are tough?" I am postulating that, in general, a new athlete has no idea if they are being abused or this is the way to become a world-class athlete. I hope you can see the question I am asking (not answering).

eckza 7y ago

In general, no. You said, yourself, that Alberto "clearly has crossed the line". He didn't cross the line by pushing her, as an athlete; he crossed the line by fostering a culture of emotional and psychological abuse, in the name of athletic performance.

ergothus 7y ago

> But, how does one know if the coach is abusive or “that’s just how sports is, it’s hard and no replacement for hard work”? Two comments - First, althetes are already tough and demanding to themselves. The kinds of tough coaches that need atent the same kind of tough I'd need to get my unmotivated self moving. Equating these kinds of "tough" is inaccurate. They need coaches that have insight and cover their weaknesses, not assholes. Second, I completely understand your logical approach - I've done it myself so many times. But I've started realizing that in doing so I'm supporting the status quo without evidence. I'm defending current injustices because of potential, hypothetical problems. What IF "this lead to weaker coaches that don’t push the atheletes but now are afraid of abusing and crossing the line"? While that's not the ideal, that sounds better than inducing eating disorders that destroy quality of life (and potentially, the lives themselves). I dont think that's a risk - my first point covers that - but if that is a risk, it sounds worth the risk. Certainly better than accepting the status quo because change MIGHT not be better in every measure.

spectramax 7y ago
Thanks for a detailed response, I know this is a sensitive topic. I was more curious from a new athelete's standpoint. Say, I am 14 years old, and say I want to become a world class athelete. Objectively, how does a new young athelete know if they are being abused or just "working hard"? There is literally no way to know if some authoritative figure as Coach is telling me to do something I don't like. The central question I have is how does a new comer sense and detect abuse so that they can take action? There is a lot of bullshit in Sports and Nutrition fields of study - partially because the data just isn't there but also because the lack of scientific method employed by people in this industry. Try searching for help on the internet for a sports related topic and you'll get everything and anything from tabloids full of bogus claims to rarely an linked journal from Johns Hopkins. Furthermore, we need to also think about this from a Coach's perspective. There are thousands if not hundreds of thousands of coaches around the world. What credentials and authority do they have to make their students do something, especially if there is not scientific or objective backing up the claims? On the other side, Coaches that are now in the business would be completely taken aback and question everything that they do to avoid potential unintended abuse. I have empathy for abused athletes and it has no place in the society. Just that it is important to understand both sides of the coin and not be riled up by emotions.

jmull 7y ago

On one hand you're saying "clearly, Alberto has crossed the line with Mary" and on the other you're suggesting this is perhaps unknowable. (...how does one know if the coach is abusive or “that’s just how sports is, it’s hard and coaches are tough”?) So which is it? Put another way: how did you know that in this case Alberto crossed the line?

spectramax 7y ago
Huh!? Mary is testifying for it based on the evidence collected by NyTimes. In general, I am not answering, but questioning - how does one know if they are being abused if "that's how sports is, it is hard and coaches are tough?" I am postulating that, in general, a new athlete has no idea if they are being abused or this is the way to become a world-class athlete. I hope you can see the question I am asking (not answering).