4 ms·

You’re shopping at the wrong places. There is good bread out there. For better or worse, a lot of Americans like fluffy white bread that’s loaded with preserva

You’re shopping at the wrong places. There is good bread out there. For better or worse, a lot of Americans like fluffy white bread that’s loaded with preservatives to give it a long shelf life. That’s what they ate as kids & they’ve never branched out. I’m not defending US mass market bread, but I do think it’s largely a matter of differing tastes and values. Your comment (and much of this thread) comes off as “I have different values, I don’t understand mainstream American values in this or that regard so let me tell you why they suck and why we’re better than you”. So yeah, it’s flame-baity & perhaps even unkind. Even if you’re right. A gentle reminder: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21490714 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21490714

oblio 7y ago
> “I have different values, I don’t understand mainstream American values in this or that regard so let me tell you why they suck and why we’re better than you”. If your "values" are medically unhealthy... I'll let you draw your own conclusions ;-)
Someone1234 7y ago
I was comparing supermarket breads in Europe and the US. So while I may be shopping in the "wrong" places in the US that doesn't really detract from my overarching point. A lot of people, in both areas, buy their bread at supermarkets. If supermarkets don't offer good products, that may also be a discussion worth having. > I have different values, I don’t understand mainstream American values in this or that regard so let me tell you why they suck and why we’re better than you But this critique doesn't address why the price is higher. You can call it "values" if you want but ultimately we're talking about a lower quality product at a higher price and shoppers that likely don't know they have other choices/are getting a worse product. > So yeah, it’s flame-baity & perhaps even unkind. I feel like attempting to place words into my mouth ("why they suck and why we’re better than you") that don't remotely match my tone or substance of my post and then calling it "unkind" is a much larger departure from expected decorum than anything I actually posted above. To quote the site's guidelines: > Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith. Re-stated my argument in a much more negative and judgemental way then attacking it doesn't feel like a good faith argument or trying to argue the strongest interpretation but YMMV.
- navigatesol 7y ago
  >I was comparing supermarket breads in Europe and the US Every major supermarket I've ever been to in the US and Canada has a million styles of bread, including many freshly baked right there at the store. >but ultimately we're talking about a lower quality product at a higher price Do you have evidence for lower quality, outside of the roundly debunked "shelf life" argument? Or are these your preferences?
  - ilikehurdles 7y ago
    A million styles of bad bread in comparison to any one of the cheap loaves available in a German market. In many major US supermarkets, the freshly baked product is worse than the stale packaged product. Try it at your local albertsons or walmart. It's acceptable if you eat it warm and after that you can use it as a sponge to soak up spills. The $7 artisan whatever quarter of a loaf at Whole Foods is maybe in the same ballpark as what you find in Germany and you still have to be lucky enough to get it fresh. The normal packaged rectangular bread loaves people buy in the US are what we called "toaster bread" in Europe (bread to only be eaten toasted). What would you consider objectively lower quality anyway? Is use of preservatives and corn syrup lower quality, or is that a preference for shelf life and sweets? Is a McDonalds burger low quality or is that just preference? I can take you to a generic bakery in my old rural small town in Germany where the 25-cent pretzel would blow the socks off any pretzel you can find for any price in any store in the US, but maybe you'd call that preference.
    - refurb 7y ago
      I love how long the bread argument thread is getting. Reminds me of coffee discussions. “Peet’s is good coffee!”, “No it’s shit, you don’t know good coffee!”, “You just have an unsophisticated palate!”.
- chopin 7y ago
  My experience (Germany) is different: You can't get a good bread in super markets here. Heck you can't even get a good bread at specialized bakeries (with some very rare exceptions). I bake my own bread as a result.

oblio 7y ago

> “I have different values, I don’t understand mainstream American values in this or that regard so let me tell you why they suck and why we’re better than you”. If your "values" are medically unhealthy... I'll let you draw your own conclusions ;-)

Someone1234 7y ago

I was comparing supermarket breads in Europe and the US. So while I may be shopping in the "wrong" places in the US that doesn't really detract from my overarching point. A lot of people, in both areas, buy their bread at supermarkets. If supermarkets don't offer good products, that may also be a discussion worth having. > I have different values, I don’t understand mainstream American values in this or that regard so let me tell you why they suck and why we’re better than you But this critique doesn't address why the price is higher. You can call it "values" if you want but ultimately we're talking about a lower quality product at a higher price and shoppers that likely don't know they have other choices/are getting a worse product. > So yeah, it’s flame-baity & perhaps even unkind. I feel like attempting to place words into my mouth ("why they suck and why we’re better than you") that don't remotely match my tone or substance of my post and then calling it "unkind" is a much larger departure from expected decorum than anything I actually posted above. To quote the site's guidelines: > Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith. Re-stated my argument in a much more negative and judgemental way then attacking it doesn't feel like a good faith argument or trying to argue the strongest interpretation but YMMV.

navigatesol 7y ago
>I was comparing supermarket breads in Europe and the US Every major supermarket I've ever been to in the US and Canada has a million styles of bread, including many freshly baked right there at the store. >but ultimately we're talking about a lower quality product at a higher price Do you have evidence for lower quality, outside of the roundly debunked "shelf life" argument? Or are these your preferences?
- ilikehurdles 7y ago
  A million styles of bad bread in comparison to any one of the cheap loaves available in a German market. In many major US supermarkets, the freshly baked product is worse than the stale packaged product. Try it at your local albertsons or walmart. It's acceptable if you eat it warm and after that you can use it as a sponge to soak up spills. The $7 artisan whatever quarter of a loaf at Whole Foods is maybe in the same ballpark as what you find in Germany and you still have to be lucky enough to get it fresh. The normal packaged rectangular bread loaves people buy in the US are what we called "toaster bread" in Europe (bread to only be eaten toasted). What would you consider objectively lower quality anyway? Is use of preservatives and corn syrup lower quality, or is that a preference for shelf life and sweets? Is a McDonalds burger low quality or is that just preference? I can take you to a generic bakery in my old rural small town in Germany where the 25-cent pretzel would blow the socks off any pretzel you can find for any price in any store in the US, but maybe you'd call that preference.
  - refurb 7y ago
    I love how long the bread argument thread is getting. Reminds me of coffee discussions. “Peet’s is good coffee!”, “No it’s shit, you don’t know good coffee!”, “You just have an unsophisticated palate!”.
chopin 7y ago
My experience (Germany) is different: You can't get a good bread in super markets here. Heck you can't even get a good bread at specialized bakeries (with some very rare exceptions). I bake my own bread as a result.