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Yet AI beat humans at every strategic game out there, from Chess and Go to StarCraft2. We don't have general AI, but in some fields, human understanding have al

Yet AI beat humans at every strategic game out there, from Chess and Go to StarCraft2. We don't have general AI, but in some fields, human understanding have already been outpaced.

tsimionescu 7y ago
Specialized fields like games aren't necessarily a problem - computers have been beating us at arithmetic for decades, and it isn't exactly world shattering. Also, a minor nitpick: AI has not succeeded at beating the best players at SC2, though it did beat the vast majority of the ladder.
- ben_w 7y ago
  > Specialized fields like games aren't necessarily a problem - computers have been beating us at arithmetic for decades, and it isn't exactly world shattering. I would argue that it is, because that’s the driver for industrial automation.
networkimprov 7y ago
The heck with all that. Show me the software that beats Roger, Rafa, and Nole at tennis!
- pmoriarty 7y ago
  I'm not sure if you'll have that long to wait, considering the kind of success Boston Robotics has been having. I would be surprised if by the end of the century robots couldn't beat humans at every physical sport in existence. It's likely that robots and robotically-enhanced humans will both be banned from competing directly with humans in sports, because it'll be no contest -- in the robots' favor.
  - p1esk 7y ago
    Ping pong is almost solved: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZzL2rDNSJk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZzL2rDNSJk Give it a year or two and it will probably beat the world champion. Tennis is more challenging, but still, the surface is flat, no obstacles, so a platform with wheels carrying an arm with a racket could be fast and stable. I'm not even sure what would be the hardest part to make a champion tennis robot.
    - AnimalMuppet 7y ago
      The hardest part might be to create one that can store enough energy to last through a five-hour match.
      - pmoriarty 7y ago
        Why couldn't it just change batteries as needed, or just be wired up to power for that matter? I'd expect something like wrestling would be much more challenging than non-contact sports, assuming, of course, that the robot's strength and torque was limited to human levels. Wrestling is actually a pretty interesting case, now that I think about it for a bit, as robots wouldn't need to be limited to human-like bodies. In principle, they could have, say, a starfish-like or octopus-like body, where its tentacles would allow it to grip its human opponent in ways that may be impossible to escape, even were the robot limited to human strength. So I suspect that in sports like wrestling (and maybe all other sports), robots that are allowed to compete would likely be limited to human-like forms, as other forms could give them too great an advantage.
        AnimalMuppet 7y ago
        > Why couldn't it just change batteries as needed, or just be wired up to power for that matter? Because the human it's playing can't. In a sport where endurance is a significant component, wiring one competitor up to power, while the other has to use only the fuel that he/she has stored, doesn't seem like an equitable competition.
        7y ago
pmoriarty 7y ago
Those three games are very far from "every strategic game out there", and even they can be trivially made much more difficult for AI's by growing their board size, for example, making more types of pieces with different moves, or making other changes to their rules. There are hundreds of chess variants alone, for instance.
- FartyMcFarter 7y ago
  > growing their board size, for example, making more types of pieces with different moves, or making other changes to their rules This would also make the games more difficult for humans, and it would erase much of the accumulated knowledge about strategy.
ivalm 7y ago
In complete information games like chess and go the AI does reign supreme. In SC2, the AI plays highly abusable strategies that would not win with proper prep vs top players. Same thing with Dota bots by OpenAI.
- DennisP 7y ago
  It's not just complete information games. AI recently overcame the best humans in six-player no-limit Texas hold'em. https://www.newscientist.com/article/2209631-ai-beats-professionals-at-six-player-texas-hold-em-poker/ https://www.newscientist.com/article/2209631-ai-beats-profes...
_bxg1 7y ago
Each of those has fixed rules, and each took lots of effort from human researchers to hand-craft and hand-train the models. Not that it isn't impressive, but it's still fundamentally a different thing than general intelligence. I don't think it's just a matter of doing more of the same.

Yet AI beat humans at every strategic game out there, from Chess and Go to StarCraft2. We don't have general AI, but in some fields, human understanding have already been outpaced.

tsimionescu 7y ago

Specialized fields like games aren't necessarily a problem - computers have been beating us at arithmetic for decades, and it isn't exactly world shattering. Also, a minor nitpick: AI has not succeeded at beating the best players at SC2, though it did beat the vast majority of the ladder.

ben_w 7y ago
> Specialized fields like games aren't necessarily a problem - computers have been beating us at arithmetic for decades, and it isn't exactly world shattering. I would argue that it is, because that’s the driver for industrial automation.

networkimprov 7y ago

The heck with all that. Show me the software that beats Roger, Rafa, and Nole at tennis!

pmoriarty 7y ago
I'm not sure if you'll have that long to wait, considering the kind of success Boston Robotics has been having. I would be surprised if by the end of the century robots couldn't beat humans at every physical sport in existence. It's likely that robots and robotically-enhanced humans will both be banned from competing directly with humans in sports, because it'll be no contest -- in the robots' favor.
- p1esk 7y ago
  Ping pong is almost solved: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZzL2rDNSJk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZzL2rDNSJk Give it a year or two and it will probably beat the world champion. Tennis is more challenging, but still, the surface is flat, no obstacles, so a platform with wheels carrying an arm with a racket could be fast and stable. I'm not even sure what would be the hardest part to make a champion tennis robot.
  - AnimalMuppet 7y ago
    The hardest part might be to create one that can store enough energy to last through a five-hour match.
    - pmoriarty 7y ago
      Why couldn't it just change batteries as needed, or just be wired up to power for that matter? I'd expect something like wrestling would be much more challenging than non-contact sports, assuming, of course, that the robot's strength and torque was limited to human levels. Wrestling is actually a pretty interesting case, now that I think about it for a bit, as robots wouldn't need to be limited to human-like bodies. In principle, they could have, say, a starfish-like or octopus-like body, where its tentacles would allow it to grip its human opponent in ways that may be impossible to escape, even were the robot limited to human strength. So I suspect that in sports like wrestling (and maybe all other sports), robots that are allowed to compete would likely be limited to human-like forms, as other forms could give them too great an advantage.
      - AnimalMuppet 7y ago
        > Why couldn't it just change batteries as needed, or just be wired up to power for that matter? Because the human it's playing can't. In a sport where endurance is a significant component, wiring one competitor up to power, while the other has to use only the fuel that he/she has stored, doesn't seem like an equitable competition.
        7y ago

pmoriarty 7y ago

Those three games are very far from "every strategic game out there", and even they can be trivially made much more difficult for AI's by growing their board size, for example, making more types of pieces with different moves, or making other changes to their rules. There are hundreds of chess variants alone, for instance.

FartyMcFarter 7y ago
> growing their board size, for example, making more types of pieces with different moves, or making other changes to their rules This would also make the games more difficult for humans, and it would erase much of the accumulated knowledge about strategy.

ivalm 7y ago

In complete information games like chess and go the AI does reign supreme. In SC2, the AI plays highly abusable strategies that would not win with proper prep vs top players. Same thing with Dota bots by OpenAI.

DennisP 7y ago
It's not just complete information games. AI recently overcame the best humans in six-player no-limit Texas hold'em. https://www.newscientist.com/article/2209631-ai-beats-professionals-at-six-player-texas-hold-em-poker/ https://www.newscientist.com/article/2209631-ai-beats-profes...

_bxg1 7y ago

Each of those has fixed rules, and each took lots of effort from human researchers to hand-craft and hand-train the models. Not that it isn't impressive, but it's still fundamentally a different thing than general intelligence. I don't think it's just a matter of doing more of the same.