8 ms·

I'm mostly amused by this - > 6. CS professors know how to program. Back in grad school, we had an Algorithms Professor who was my advisor & wrote several impo

by dxbydt 7y ago

I'm mostly amused by this - > 6. CS professors know how to program. Back in grad school, we had an Algorithms Professor who was my advisor & wrote several important papers. We also had a PL professor who mostly taught Lisp/C/C++ etc. One day PL professor fell ill. So Algo Prof was sent in as a substitute. So he tried to divert the class attention by going into algorithm detail instead of focusing on programming language theory. But homework was due next week, so students asked him about some C nuance. So Prof said I don't know, but I'll let you know by next class. Then he hurried back to his room & tried to read up on C but obviously couldn't make much headway. In those days we had Usenet & that was it. So the Prof goes on Usenet & clicks on comp.lang.c. In those days I used to fancy myself a C hacker & I hung around on newsgroups trying to help out newbies. So I see this frustrated question from a newbie "HOW TO OPEN FILE FROM C ???" and I click on it so I can help this poor miserable bastard. Turns out it is from my Professor! The footer had his entire credentials like PhD, list of papers published, teaching career etc. So everybody on comp.lang was mocking this idiot who had a PhD in CS but didn't know how to open a fucking file with C. I was so embarrassed I rushed into his office & demanded how he could make a fool of himself like that. "You could have just asked me about fopen, why did you post in public that too with your real name ??! " He was like I've never used all this newsgroup stuff I barely know how to telnet. This was my first post I thought they will help me but they are just heaping abuse.

Upvoter33 7y ago
In contrast, there are plenty of CS professors who are really quite exceptional hackers. The falsehood should be "All CS professors are really good programmers".
- shaklee3 7y ago
  Dan J Bernstein, for one.
laichzeit0 7y ago
Expecting a CS prof to know how to program is like expecting a pure mathematician to know how to use Mathematica/Matlab. It’s absurd and doesn’t follow at all.
- ramraj07 7y ago
  This is more like an anatomy professor who's never touched a cadaver. Far less excusable than a theoretical mathematician not knowing Matlab - because Matlab is not the only way to apply math (the mat in Matlab is for matrix not math)
  - laichzeit0 7y ago
    The guy has a PhD in algorithms. He’d he writing proofs, not writing code. The same for programming languages, you’re proving things, like the Pumping Lemma. Computer Science is not about producing coders for industry. You can learn how to code from a boot camp or Coursera, but it has very little to do with Computer Science.
  - adrianN 7y ago
    No this is more like an anatomy professor who doesn't know how to remove an appendix without asking a surgeon.
  - leereeves 7y ago
    And C isn't the only way to apply computer science.
- gpderetta 7y ago
  It's more like expecting an astronomer to know how to use a telescope :)
- WalterBright 7y ago
  I know how to build a C++ compiler, but I'm not very good at C++ code.
  - rdc12 7y ago
    Is anyone good at C++ thou, didn't Bjarne only rate himself as 7/10 at C++ coding
    - 7y ago
varrock 7y ago
This sounds so made up, but it's too specific for it to be. Thanks for sharing, a nice chuckle before the start of a new work week.
- protomyth 7y ago
  Comp.lang.c wasn't exactly know as a kind space. Thinking about it, the lisp group had a bit of unfriendly rep. The objective-c group had one damn fool who advocated that NeXT wasn't actually a true Objective-C. I do miss those group though.
  - phamilton 7y ago
    I don't know if there's a place less friendly than #perl on freenode I'm pretty sure 90% of the questions I ever asked there were answered with "CPAN is a thing" or "Why would you even want to do that?". Rarely would anyone answer my actual question.
    - bmn__ 7y ago
      Use irc.perl.org #perl-help instead. See <http://www.irc.perl.org/rules.html#Community%20Policies> http://www.irc.perl.org/rules.html#Community%20Policies>.
    - aidenn0 7y ago
      ##c is easily the most pedantic chat forum I've ever visited. It's also the only place I've seen someone use a diaeresis in chat.
  - tempguy9999 7y ago
    > the lisp group had a bit of unfriendly rep And Erik Naggum might have had something to do with it. Perhaps unfairly as he seemed to hate stupidity rather than ignorance, which he was AFAICS, helpful towards. I alwasy imagined a 60 year old sergeant-major type frothing at the mouth, heck yes he could flame! Dead aged 44. A loss. "Erik Naggum several times stated that stupidity, or rather the lacking willingness of individuals to acquire knowledge about a subject, argument or read other people's arguments with an open mind, was more or less a criminal offense. He was known for his polemic aggression towards what he considered to be ignorant individuals. Much of what he wrote was so full of sarcasm and irony that it could be difficult to understand what he truly believed in and what were general exaggerations made just to make a point. " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erik_Naggum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erik_Naggum
watwut 7y ago
> I was so embarrassed I rushed into his office & demanded how he could make a fool of himself like that. Why is it shameful to ask for help when you are doing something for the first time? Why such strong emotional reaction to that leading to berating from someone who is not even affected? Algorithms are a branch of math - it is about proofs and structures and big O. It is about figuring out how to achieve right big O. Especially in their beginning, it was not necessary to know C in order study or teach them. Nowdays, typically they are not taught in C either. Edit: fixed typos
- MaxBarraclough 7y ago
  > Algorithms are a branch of math Well, when viewed mathematically, sure. > It is about figuring out how to achieve right big O. That's hardly the whole story. I'd say the engineering work 'counts' as algorithm work, as much as the computer science. If you're looking to publish in a top journal and prove how clever you are, an impressive time complexity is fantastic, even if the algorithm is completely impractical for real applications. Case in point at [0]. If you're looking at real-world performance, you don't especially care about time complexity, you care about, well, the real-world performance of your implementation. Maybe you'll improve time complexity too [1] (I suppose that counts as crossing from engineering to science), or maybe you'll just put in the engineering work without making breakthroughs in theoretical terms [2]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coppersmith%E2%80%93Winograd_algorithm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coppersmith%E2%80%93Winograd_a... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timsort https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timsort [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21459839 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21459839
  - watwut 7y ago
    Algorithm courses in CS do not teach those real time performance considerations. They are about the math part and pseudo code. And I think they should not teach that. The real world performance issues area is heavily dependent on technology being used and changes over time, algorithm course is about basic platform neutral algorithms. Those real time considerations should be taught, but in more courses that are focused on coding itself and by people who are focused on that area, are good at it and can explain it in depth. A single prof does not need to be good everything and every course does not need to teach everything.
JasonFruit 7y ago
Okay, this is a great story. But look at the prof's actions: he covered for a colleague, admitted he didn't know the answer, and had the humility to ask when he realized he wasn't going to be able to learn C overnight. It might have been easier on him to use a pseudonym, but the guy sounds like he was doing life right.
bregma 7y ago
Computer Science is to programming as Theoretical Physics is to Homebuilding. A lot of physics professors probably wouldn't know which end of a hammer to grip to drive a screw. The problem here is probably students expecting to attend a trade school and discovering they're in academia instead.
- numeromancer 7y ago
  > which end of a hammer to grip to drive a screw I must confess that I don't know which end of a hammer to grip to drive a screw.

by dxbydt 7y ago

Upvoter33 7y ago

In contrast, there are plenty of CS professors who are really quite exceptional hackers. The falsehood should be "All CS professors are really good programmers".

shaklee3 7y ago
Dan J Bernstein, for one.

laichzeit0 7y ago

Expecting a CS prof to know how to program is like expecting a pure mathematician to know how to use Mathematica/Matlab. It’s absurd and doesn’t follow at all.

ramraj07 7y ago
This is more like an anatomy professor who's never touched a cadaver. Far less excusable than a theoretical mathematician not knowing Matlab - because Matlab is not the only way to apply math (the mat in Matlab is for matrix not math)
- laichzeit0 7y ago
  The guy has a PhD in algorithms. He’d he writing proofs, not writing code. The same for programming languages, you’re proving things, like the Pumping Lemma. Computer Science is not about producing coders for industry. You can learn how to code from a boot camp or Coursera, but it has very little to do with Computer Science.
- adrianN 7y ago
  No this is more like an anatomy professor who doesn't know how to remove an appendix without asking a surgeon.
- leereeves 7y ago
  And C isn't the only way to apply computer science.
gpderetta 7y ago
It's more like expecting an astronomer to know how to use a telescope :)
WalterBright 7y ago
I know how to build a C++ compiler, but I'm not very good at C++ code.
- rdc12 7y ago
  Is anyone good at C++ thou, didn't Bjarne only rate himself as 7/10 at C++ coding
  - 7y ago

varrock 7y ago

This sounds so made up, but it's too specific for it to be. Thanks for sharing, a nice chuckle before the start of a new work week.

protomyth 7y ago
Comp.lang.c wasn't exactly know as a kind space. Thinking about it, the lisp group had a bit of unfriendly rep. The objective-c group had one damn fool who advocated that NeXT wasn't actually a true Objective-C. I do miss those group though.
- phamilton 7y ago
  I don't know if there's a place less friendly than #perl on freenode I'm pretty sure 90% of the questions I ever asked there were answered with "CPAN is a thing" or "Why would you even want to do that?". Rarely would anyone answer my actual question.
  - bmn__ 7y ago
    Use irc.perl.org #perl-help instead. See <http://www.irc.perl.org/rules.html#Community%20Policies> http://www.irc.perl.org/rules.html#Community%20Policies>.
  - aidenn0 7y ago
    ##c is easily the most pedantic chat forum I've ever visited. It's also the only place I've seen someone use a diaeresis in chat.
- tempguy9999 7y ago
  > the lisp group had a bit of unfriendly rep And Erik Naggum might have had something to do with it. Perhaps unfairly as he seemed to hate stupidity rather than ignorance, which he was AFAICS, helpful towards. I alwasy imagined a 60 year old sergeant-major type frothing at the mouth, heck yes he could flame! Dead aged 44. A loss. "Erik Naggum several times stated that stupidity, or rather the lacking willingness of individuals to acquire knowledge about a subject, argument or read other people's arguments with an open mind, was more or less a criminal offense. He was known for his polemic aggression towards what he considered to be ignorant individuals. Much of what he wrote was so full of sarcasm and irony that it could be difficult to understand what he truly believed in and what were general exaggerations made just to make a point. " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erik_Naggum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erik_Naggum

watwut 7y ago

> I was so embarrassed I rushed into his office & demanded how he could make a fool of himself like that. Why is it shameful to ask for help when you are doing something for the first time? Why such strong emotional reaction to that leading to berating from someone who is not even affected? Algorithms are a branch of math - it is about proofs and structures and big O. It is about figuring out how to achieve right big O. Especially in their beginning, it was not necessary to know C in order study or teach them. Nowdays, typically they are not taught in C either. Edit: fixed typos

MaxBarraclough 7y ago
> Algorithms are a branch of math Well, when viewed mathematically, sure. > It is about figuring out how to achieve right big O. That's hardly the whole story. I'd say the engineering work 'counts' as algorithm work, as much as the computer science. If you're looking to publish in a top journal and prove how clever you are, an impressive time complexity is fantastic, even if the algorithm is completely impractical for real applications. Case in point at [0]. If you're looking at real-world performance, you don't especially care about time complexity, you care about, well, the real-world performance of your implementation. Maybe you'll improve time complexity too [1] (I suppose that counts as crossing from engineering to science), or maybe you'll just put in the engineering work without making breakthroughs in theoretical terms [2]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coppersmith%E2%80%93Winograd_algorithm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coppersmith%E2%80%93Winograd_a... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timsort https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timsort [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21459839 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21459839
- watwut 7y ago
  Algorithm courses in CS do not teach those real time performance considerations. They are about the math part and pseudo code. And I think they should not teach that. The real world performance issues area is heavily dependent on technology being used and changes over time, algorithm course is about basic platform neutral algorithms. Those real time considerations should be taught, but in more courses that are focused on coding itself and by people who are focused on that area, are good at it and can explain it in depth. A single prof does not need to be good everything and every course does not need to teach everything.

JasonFruit 7y ago

Okay, this is a great story. But look at the prof's actions: he covered for a colleague, admitted he didn't know the answer, and had the humility to ask when he realized he wasn't going to be able to learn C overnight. It might have been easier on him to use a pseudonym, but the guy sounds like he was doing life right.

bregma 7y ago

Computer Science is to programming as Theoretical Physics is to Homebuilding. A lot of physics professors probably wouldn't know which end of a hammer to grip to drive a screw. The problem here is probably students expecting to attend a trade school and discovering they're in academia instead.

numeromancer 7y ago
> which end of a hammer to grip to drive a screw I must confess that I don't know which end of a hammer to grip to drive a screw.