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> Am I missing something? How could "regulation" be a possible answer to "digital nationalism"? Are there examples of what the author is referring to as "enligh

> Am I missing something? How could "regulation" be a possible answer to "digital nationalism"? Are there examples of what the author is referring to as "enlightened regulation" in which regulation has had the desired impacts? Seems to me that far more often we see a mix of intended and unintended consequences. How are net neutrality laws, a form of regulation, a safeguard to keep the internet open and free? > I would add that web != Internet. Internet is closer to printing press. A world in which there are billions of TCP/IP stacks on personal compute with Internet access is not one which is easily controlled (for good or for bad) by regulation. This distinction is meaningless. The author may have have conflated the terms, but most people’s primary (and often only) exposure to the internet is via a web browser. They’re clearly not concerned about the spread of nationalism via IP cameras.

jakeogh 7y ago
They arent. They are attempts to limit speech. Borders are the biggest problem for centralized power. They create markets of ideas, and having their subjects see that is an extensial threat, hence the language engineering and constant attempts to induce self/country shame.
gz5 7y ago
> How are net neutrality laws, a form of regulation, a safeguard to keep the internet open and free? Agreed, great example. The free market approach would be to ease the regulations on access and spectrum which have limited last mile competition in the US. Less regulation - not more - would lead to an enviro in which an ISP who was preferring certain content would be genuinely risking losing customers by doing so (and might gain certain types of customers, opening niches for other ISPs to win other customers, which would be fine too).
- gbanfalvi 7y ago
  > Less regulation - not more - would lead to an enviro in which an ISP who was preferring certain content would be genuinely risking losing customers by doing so (and might gain certain types of customers, opening niches for other ISPs to win other customers, which would be fine too). Haha no, Ajit. You either take the ISP you get, charging whatever you for whatever they want https://www.google.se/amp/s/arstechnica.com/information-technology/2018/07/comcast-or-charter-is-the-only-25mbps-choice-for-68-million-americans/%3famp=1 https://www.google.se/amp/s/arstechnica.com/information-tech..., or you go check your e-mail at the nearest coffee shop.
  - blotter_paper 7y ago
    Less regulation would allow us to use all of those delicious adjacent bands the television networks bribe politicians into letting them squat on -- as well as the bands they actually use. Remove broadcasting regulations entirely and we'll have a crazy free-for-all of intermittent DDOSing (accidental and otherwise) coupled with legitimate free-market internet access where you can choose any provider whose signal can reach you. I'll take it.
    - w1nst0nsm1th 7y ago
      Let's see what happen on the darknet to truly appreciate the absence of regulation : Free markets and month of barely enough practicable bandwith to buy your pot on a darkmarket because hackers ddos as hell these market in order to blackmail their owner to pay them a huge ransom to stop their attack, and what should have been an easy transaction taking barely more time than to buy shampoo on amazon take more than 4 hours. And don't get get me started with vaping canabis oil cut with tocopherol which cause an epidemic lipidic pneumonia or pedophile rings operating video sharing websites.
      - blotter_paper 7y ago
        I appreciate the relevance of your username; keep loving Big Brother, brother. Regarding cut products, it's an immature ecosystem, but thanks to efforts from folks like The LSD Avengers[0] drugs on the old Silk Road were becoming safer than normal street drugs when the government shut it down: > Silk Road seemed to be a safe place to buy really good drugs, if you knew what you were doing. The prices might be higher than what you’d pay on the street, but dealers on Silk Road were held somewhat accountable by the community. The seller-rating system built into the site, along with efforts by unofficial groups like the Avengers, created a meritocracy that rewarded dealers who sold good stuff (with the exception of the infamous tony76 fraud, in which a well-reputed seller took a bulk of orders and disappeared). And when law enforcement tested the wares on Silk Road, police found they typically had a high purity level of the drug advertised. If you authoritarians would just stop hunting down and arresting drug users then the ones who cared about purity and health would actually have options they were well informed about. The problem isn't a lack of regulation, it's that you've regulated the product so hard that it's legally dangerous to even review it, and you keep attacking/dispersing communities of buyers and sellers which means that it's difficult to keep organized/informed. That you would blame this on the free market is ridiculous. Let people sell and review products, they'll figure it out if you just stop pointing guns at them and locking them in boxes. This problem is absolutely a result of regulation; if you did not regulate LSD at all, finding a source of actual unadulterated LSD would be trivial. Same with cannabis oil. [0]: https://www.theverge.com/2013/10/14/4828448/silk-road-lsd-avengers-drug-inspectors https://www.theverge.com/2013/10/14/4828448/silk-road-lsd-av...
jakelazaroff 7y ago
> The author may have have conflated the terms, but most people’s primary (and often only) exposure to the internet is via a web browser. I don't think this is true. Email is probably the most notable exception, but also social apps like Instagram and TikTok that are used primarily or exclusively as native apps. Chat apps (WhatsApp/iMessage/Slack/IRC/etc) are usually accessed outside of a web browser. Dropbox syncs files over the Internet between my computers, but I rarely if ever visit their website. Obviously most of these things are accessible on the web, and you often have to use the web to set them up. But the day-to-day experiences of using them happen entirely outside of a web browser.
- squiggleblaz 7y ago
  Yet over HTTP. Which is kind of weird. Email at one stage was primarily accessed via a web browser — maybe that time is passed now. I think the days of distinguishing between the Web and the Internet are behind us, if it ever even made sense.
  - jakelazaroff 7y ago
    Some! Unless I'm mistaken, POP/IMAP/SMTP are all non-HTTP-based protocols.

jakeogh 7y ago

They arent. They are attempts to limit speech. Borders are the biggest problem for centralized power. They create markets of ideas, and having their subjects see that is an extensial threat, hence the language engineering and constant attempts to induce self/country shame.

gz5 7y ago

> How are net neutrality laws, a form of regulation, a safeguard to keep the internet open and free? Agreed, great example. The free market approach would be to ease the regulations on access and spectrum which have limited last mile competition in the US. Less regulation - not more - would lead to an enviro in which an ISP who was preferring certain content would be genuinely risking losing customers by doing so (and might gain certain types of customers, opening niches for other ISPs to win other customers, which would be fine too).

gbanfalvi 7y ago
> Less regulation - not more - would lead to an enviro in which an ISP who was preferring certain content would be genuinely risking losing customers by doing so (and might gain certain types of customers, opening niches for other ISPs to win other customers, which would be fine too). Haha no, Ajit. You either take the ISP you get, charging whatever you for whatever they want https://www.google.se/amp/s/arstechnica.com/information-technology/2018/07/comcast-or-charter-is-the-only-25mbps-choice-for-68-million-americans/%3famp=1 https://www.google.se/amp/s/arstechnica.com/information-tech..., or you go check your e-mail at the nearest coffee shop.
- blotter_paper 7y ago
  Less regulation would allow us to use all of those delicious adjacent bands the television networks bribe politicians into letting them squat on -- as well as the bands they actually use. Remove broadcasting regulations entirely and we'll have a crazy free-for-all of intermittent DDOSing (accidental and otherwise) coupled with legitimate free-market internet access where you can choose any provider whose signal can reach you. I'll take it.
  - w1nst0nsm1th 7y ago
    Let's see what happen on the darknet to truly appreciate the absence of regulation : Free markets and month of barely enough practicable bandwith to buy your pot on a darkmarket because hackers ddos as hell these market in order to blackmail their owner to pay them a huge ransom to stop their attack, and what should have been an easy transaction taking barely more time than to buy shampoo on amazon take more than 4 hours. And don't get get me started with vaping canabis oil cut with tocopherol which cause an epidemic lipidic pneumonia or pedophile rings operating video sharing websites.
    - blotter_paper 7y ago
      I appreciate the relevance of your username; keep loving Big Brother, brother. Regarding cut products, it's an immature ecosystem, but thanks to efforts from folks like The LSD Avengers[0] drugs on the old Silk Road were becoming safer than normal street drugs when the government shut it down: > Silk Road seemed to be a safe place to buy really good drugs, if you knew what you were doing. The prices might be higher than what you’d pay on the street, but dealers on Silk Road were held somewhat accountable by the community. The seller-rating system built into the site, along with efforts by unofficial groups like the Avengers, created a meritocracy that rewarded dealers who sold good stuff (with the exception of the infamous tony76 fraud, in which a well-reputed seller took a bulk of orders and disappeared). And when law enforcement tested the wares on Silk Road, police found they typically had a high purity level of the drug advertised. If you authoritarians would just stop hunting down and arresting drug users then the ones who cared about purity and health would actually have options they were well informed about. The problem isn't a lack of regulation, it's that you've regulated the product so hard that it's legally dangerous to even review it, and you keep attacking/dispersing communities of buyers and sellers which means that it's difficult to keep organized/informed. That you would blame this on the free market is ridiculous. Let people sell and review products, they'll figure it out if you just stop pointing guns at them and locking them in boxes. This problem is absolutely a result of regulation; if you did not regulate LSD at all, finding a source of actual unadulterated LSD would be trivial. Same with cannabis oil. [0]: https://www.theverge.com/2013/10/14/4828448/silk-road-lsd-avengers-drug-inspectors https://www.theverge.com/2013/10/14/4828448/silk-road-lsd-av...

jakelazaroff 7y ago

> The author may have have conflated the terms, but most people’s primary (and often only) exposure to the internet is via a web browser. I don't think this is true. Email is probably the most notable exception, but also social apps like Instagram and TikTok that are used primarily or exclusively as native apps. Chat apps (WhatsApp/iMessage/Slack/IRC/etc) are usually accessed outside of a web browser. Dropbox syncs files over the Internet between my computers, but I rarely if ever visit their website. Obviously most of these things are accessible on the web, and you often have to use the web to set them up. But the day-to-day experiences of using them happen entirely outside of a web browser.

squiggleblaz 7y ago
Yet over HTTP. Which is kind of weird. Email at one stage was primarily accessed via a web browser — maybe that time is passed now. I think the days of distinguishing between the Web and the Internet are behind us, if it ever even made sense.
- jakelazaroff 7y ago
  Some! Unless I'm mistaken, POP/IMAP/SMTP are all non-HTTP-based protocols.