8 ms·

‘Go Back to California’: Wave of Newcomers Fuels Backlash in Boise

35 points by ilamont 7y ago

knolax 7y ago
Exaggerated clickbait.
Camillo 7y ago
> One salvo in Richey’s battle against newcomers was his property tax proposal, which he called Proposition Zero One Two Three. His basic tenet: The longer you live here, the less you pay. Sixty-year residents would pay no property taxes, while newcomers would shoulder the burden. That's just going to make the Californians feel right at home.
- Nasrudith 7y ago
  That brings to mind the concept of a stronf interpretation of the 14th ammendment protecting against bad laws and promoting justice.
jchw 7y ago
Only sort of related, but... I really wish there could be a social network like Nextdoor that wasn't essentially flooded with NIMBYs. A local social network seems like a good idea, but in practice Nextdoor is the absolute worst social network I've ever encountered in two different locations that I've tried it. (And one of those locations was Michigan, so this isn't just California social issues causing this.)
- mc32 7y ago
  What's funny about NextDoor is they constantly complain about homelessness, property crime, assault, etc., but continue to vote in the same kind of progressive supervisors who solve nothing. I see a few finally having it and saying they will look to more centrist candidates --but it's not going to change overnight.
  - dmitrygr 7y ago
    Because (to be 100% Frank) nobody wants to pay to fix it, they just want the problem away from them and out of sight.
jt2190 7y ago
Something about this reminded me of Hunter S. Thompson’s campaign for Sheriff of Aspen, CO: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Battle_of_Aspen https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Battle_of_Aspen
- pmoriarty 7y ago
  There's also a great book called Cows Are Freaky When They Look at You[1], which is about California hippie pot farmers who picked up and moved do rural Kansas in the 60's to grow their crop, and the boggle-eyed reactions they got from the locals. [1] - https://www.amazon.com/Cows-Freaky-When-They-Look/dp/0922820139/ https://www.amazon.com/Cows-Freaky-When-They-Look/dp/0922820...
- otras 7y ago
  I thought of this scene of his in particular, when he’s exchanging gunfire with his neighbor: ”If this son of a bitch wants to bitch about his cows over here and shoot at me, well... it's our country. It's not theirs. It's not a bunch of used car dealers from southern California.” https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NHeSC_Ws5Ic https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NHeSC_Ws5Ic
sparrish 7y ago
I feel their pain. We here in Colorado are also seeing a big influx from California and their stereotypical culture and politics is unwelcome to many here. The "pull-yourself-up-by-your-bootstraps", "live-and-let-live" cowboy attitude most Colorado-born folks here have clashes in no small way with what most California's bring. And why the heck can't they drive like normal people?! <grin> Great thing about America, you don't like where you're at, you can move to someplace else. That goes for Californias and for Coloradans.
- mc32 7y ago
  The ironic thing is not that Californians are leaving the state. Why wouldn't you want to leave a state with dysfunctional politics and questionable policies? The irony is they take their politics and want to impose the same policies and politics in the new states --which if successful would create the same issues they are running away from!
  - pmoriarty 7y ago
    The cause for the dysfunction in California politics is highly debatable. Is it just too liberal? Or is it too conservative? Has it been coopted by corporate interests, landowners and landlords? Or is it too sympathetic to the homeless? The list of purported reasons could and does go on and on, and everyone on each portion of the political spectrum has their own take on it. Where on the political spectrum these California expats fall and what (if anything) they think makes Californian politics dysfunctional is anyone's guess, but it's unlikely that they'll deliberately want to recreate any kind of dysfunction. If anything, they'll want to fix what what was broken about the way their state went about things.
    - chrisco255 7y ago
      Uhh, "is California too conservative?" is a rhetorical question I thought I'd never hear. Democrats have supermajorities in state politics and all the major cities are dominated by Democrats. I think a problem will always develop at some point when a state becomes "too conservative" or "too liberal". Truly, the tug of war of ideas between the two is essential for good compromises to be worked out and to avoid the excesses of either ideology. That's an unpopular opinion these days but I think it's the reason for the United States success.
algaeontoast 7y ago
Please don’t come to Austin.
shartshooter 7y ago
I grew up in a rural PNW town where hatred of Californians was a way of life. I ultimately ended up in California for the start of my career which gave me the kind of upward mobility I’d never have had an opportunity to achieve. Call it survivorship bias or whatever you want but without a stint in California I would have likely never known it was possible to get a job other than working at the lumber mill or driving a log truck. I’ve since left the Bay Area due to rising costs and landed in a Boise-like city. Costs in Redwood City at the time I left we’re $1-1.3MM for a starter three bed, two bath home at 2k sq ft. My home was purchased brand new, 25% larger than the Bay Area starters, 40% cheaper, on the best street in the best neighborhood. Why would I not live here? Quality of life is through the roof, commutes are 10-15 mins at most and everyone is happy and eager to chat about the fun things they do outdoors. It’s obvious why non-natives want to live here. What’s infuriating is to see how much the town has grown in great ways that are completely ignore by locals. Yes, rent and housing costs are way up. But so is infrastructure, tourism, amenities, etc but it’s easier to flip off the dude in CA plates instead(which happened to me shortly after moving here)
- falcolas 7y ago
  As a resident of a similarly occupied town (Californians), though for longer. And let me say that given sufficient time, the downsides only get worse. I live in a town of 40,000, and you wouldn’t think a city this small would have any major issues. But 1,600sqft condos are selling for $750,000 in downtown. Restaurants (including fast food joints like Taco Johns) are closing can’t afford to employee staff, because their staff needs $40,000 paychecks just to live in the city. Throw in a car-only commute (a dangerous one some winters), and rising costs in a 30 mile radius of the city, and the influx of cash-flush transplants is causing the city to price itself out of a working class.
- hellisothers 7y ago
  When you inevitably change jobs, how much of a salary hit do you expect to take and does do you still come out ahead or even? I ask because usually when I cost it out it doesn’t make financial sense (which I read as the gist of your post), it often does make cultural/family/life sense, but never financial sense. Also, good for you, I hope more people can make this choice!
mrtweetyhack 7y ago
Great, let's build a wall for all states to keep Idaho citizens out.
pmoriarty 7y ago
Does anyone else find this sort of thing super depressing? When I lived in New York and happened to travel outside the state, I'd regularly get people I ran across telling me how surprised they were to hear that I was from New York, because I was so nice and their impression (despite usually never having set foot in New York) was that New Yorkers were assholes. I told them that virtually everyone I ran across in New York was nice, but that it was a gigantic city and there were all sorts of people there, and because of that it's really not fair to paint all New Yorkers with such a broad brush. I'd get similar reactions when I traveled abroad and revealed to people that I was from America. One person even told me that they thought every American carried a gun. I had to tell them that, no, actually no one I knew owned a gun, the majority of Americans nation-wide did not own a gun, and it was a country of 300 million people of all sorts, many from other countries and of many different cultures, different politics, different views of the world. It's really not fair to paint all Americans with one broad brush. So now I hear that in Idaho simply being from California (a state with a population of 40 million people) could get you painted with a broad brush in Idaho. It just seems so petty, insular, xenophobic, and close minded. Wouldn't the world be better if we welcomed those who are different from us, at least as long as they also wanted to live with us in peace? Maybe mine's considered a stereotypically Californian attitude that would get me pounded down in Idaho. If so, that's just really sad.
- jakeogh 7y ago
  There's nothing wrong with having effective tools to protect life. If people know you have an irrational fear of some object, they just wont tell you. I live in Tucson, we have _plenty_ of guns, but in general, we carry them conceiled. There's no pemission slip. Weapons are the ultimate form of equality, they prevent the strong from ruling the weak. Places where only the criminals are armed are totally different.
  - matchbok 7y ago
    > Weapons are the ultimate form of equality ...only if everyone is willing to carry? The lack of understanding here is astounding. The claim of lax gun laws promotes safety has been debunked hundreds of times. The average person does not have to have to carry a firearm in order to be safe, believe it or not. It's sad, really, how people think owning guns makes them safer or more tough. Statistically the former is 100% not true. Maybe people have this fiction in their heads that they will "save the day" from the bad guy (or government?) Seems childish.
blissofbeing 7y ago
We are all more connected than we realize. Issues in California are issues for everyone, this protectionist attitude gets us nowhere in today's world where it's easier than ever to live anywhere.
masonic 7y ago
Marina Hinojosa of PBS did an episode of "America by the Numbers" hunting racism in Idaho: https://youtube.com/watch?v=R2TDc1lgZrQ https://youtube.com/watch?v=R2TDc1lgZrQ
temeculamary 7y ago
I find it interesting that Californian are disliked so much. California is made up of ALL walks of life. Every nationality comes to California and many leave after they see just how expensive it is to live . What I don’t understand with the way the Boisians mindset is, the locals don’t like that the prices are going up. Who is selling their homes at premium prices? Locals cashing in on the supply and demand. Yes, your neighbors and friends. The question really should go to your government, what are you doing to help with this supply and demand that is driving the prices up? Why aren’t wages going up as there should be an abundance of construction jobs building new homes to help with demand. Not all Californian are rich, just middle class people who have been taken out of the housing market in California by those coming into California. We don’t all agree with the way Californian is being run so we want a better way of life, just like those in Boise. Again your anger should be directed at your government officials. What are the doing to help with the cost of living there
Jojo2019 7y ago
I moved to ID back in 1999, and it was a great place - hardly any traffic, people were friendly, everyone accepting of each other, etc. Within the last 5 years, I have seen an influx of people from AZ and CA moving in that is changing all that. They are bringing in the big city "snottiness" and behaviors that come with it. Also, they are bringing in their liberal attitudes to a state that is historically conservative and Republican. I left recently out of disgust, as it's not the place I moved to and loved. A lot of the people from CA seem to be standoffish to anyone not born and raised in the western states, and it shows in their cliquish attitudes. I won't be back to the Boise area in the future unless it changes.

35 points by ilamont 7y ago

Exaggerated clickbait.

> One salvo in Richey’s battle against newcomers was his property tax proposal, which he called Proposition Zero One Two Three. His basic tenet: The longer you live here, the less you pay. Sixty-year residents would pay no property taxes, while newcomers would shoulder the burden. That's just going to make the Californians feel right at home.

Nasrudith 7y ago
That brings to mind the concept of a stronf interpretation of the 14th ammendment protecting against bad laws and promoting justice.

jchw 7y ago

Only sort of related, but... I really wish there could be a social network like Nextdoor that wasn't essentially flooded with NIMBYs. A local social network seems like a good idea, but in practice Nextdoor is the absolute worst social network I've ever encountered in two different locations that I've tried it. (And one of those locations was Michigan, so this isn't just California social issues causing this.)

mc32 7y ago
What's funny about NextDoor is they constantly complain about homelessness, property crime, assault, etc., but continue to vote in the same kind of progressive supervisors who solve nothing. I see a few finally having it and saying they will look to more centrist candidates --but it's not going to change overnight.
- dmitrygr 7y ago
  Because (to be 100% Frank) nobody wants to pay to fix it, they just want the problem away from them and out of sight.

jt2190 7y ago

Something about this reminded me of Hunter S. Thompson’s campaign for Sheriff of Aspen, CO: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Battle_of_Aspen https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Battle_of_Aspen

pmoriarty 7y ago
There's also a great book called Cows Are Freaky When They Look at You[1], which is about California hippie pot farmers who picked up and moved do rural Kansas in the 60's to grow their crop, and the boggle-eyed reactions they got from the locals. [1] - https://www.amazon.com/Cows-Freaky-When-They-Look/dp/0922820139/ https://www.amazon.com/Cows-Freaky-When-They-Look/dp/0922820...
otras 7y ago
I thought of this scene of his in particular, when he’s exchanging gunfire with his neighbor: ”If this son of a bitch wants to bitch about his cows over here and shoot at me, well... it's our country. It's not theirs. It's not a bunch of used car dealers from southern California.” https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NHeSC_Ws5Ic https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NHeSC_Ws5Ic

sparrish 7y ago

I feel their pain. We here in Colorado are also seeing a big influx from California and their stereotypical culture and politics is unwelcome to many here. The "pull-yourself-up-by-your-bootstraps", "live-and-let-live" cowboy attitude most Colorado-born folks here have clashes in no small way with what most California's bring. And why the heck can't they drive like normal people?! <grin> Great thing about America, you don't like where you're at, you can move to someplace else. That goes for Californias and for Coloradans.

mc32 7y ago
The ironic thing is not that Californians are leaving the state. Why wouldn't you want to leave a state with dysfunctional politics and questionable policies? The irony is they take their politics and want to impose the same policies and politics in the new states --which if successful would create the same issues they are running away from!
- pmoriarty 7y ago
  The cause for the dysfunction in California politics is highly debatable. Is it just too liberal? Or is it too conservative? Has it been coopted by corporate interests, landowners and landlords? Or is it too sympathetic to the homeless? The list of purported reasons could and does go on and on, and everyone on each portion of the political spectrum has their own take on it. Where on the political spectrum these California expats fall and what (if anything) they think makes Californian politics dysfunctional is anyone's guess, but it's unlikely that they'll deliberately want to recreate any kind of dysfunction. If anything, they'll want to fix what what was broken about the way their state went about things.
  - chrisco255 7y ago
    Uhh, "is California too conservative?" is a rhetorical question I thought I'd never hear. Democrats have supermajorities in state politics and all the major cities are dominated by Democrats. I think a problem will always develop at some point when a state becomes "too conservative" or "too liberal". Truly, the tug of war of ideas between the two is essential for good compromises to be worked out and to avoid the excesses of either ideology. That's an unpopular opinion these days but I think it's the reason for the United States success.

algaeontoast 7y ago

Please don’t come to Austin.

shartshooter 7y ago

I grew up in a rural PNW town where hatred of Californians was a way of life. I ultimately ended up in California for the start of my career which gave me the kind of upward mobility I’d never have had an opportunity to achieve. Call it survivorship bias or whatever you want but without a stint in California I would have likely never known it was possible to get a job other than working at the lumber mill or driving a log truck. I’ve since left the Bay Area due to rising costs and landed in a Boise-like city. Costs in Redwood City at the time I left we’re $1-1.3MM for a starter three bed, two bath home at 2k sq ft. My home was purchased brand new, 25% larger than the Bay Area starters, 40% cheaper, on the best street in the best neighborhood. Why would I not live here? Quality of life is through the roof, commutes are 10-15 mins at most and everyone is happy and eager to chat about the fun things they do outdoors. It’s obvious why non-natives want to live here. What’s infuriating is to see how much the town has grown in great ways that are completely ignore by locals. Yes, rent and housing costs are way up. But so is infrastructure, tourism, amenities, etc but it’s easier to flip off the dude in CA plates instead(which happened to me shortly after moving here)

falcolas 7y ago
As a resident of a similarly occupied town (Californians), though for longer. And let me say that given sufficient time, the downsides only get worse. I live in a town of 40,000, and you wouldn’t think a city this small would have any major issues. But 1,600sqft condos are selling for $750,000 in downtown. Restaurants (including fast food joints like Taco Johns) are closing can’t afford to employee staff, because their staff needs $40,000 paychecks just to live in the city. Throw in a car-only commute (a dangerous one some winters), and rising costs in a 30 mile radius of the city, and the influx of cash-flush transplants is causing the city to price itself out of a working class.
hellisothers 7y ago
When you inevitably change jobs, how much of a salary hit do you expect to take and does do you still come out ahead or even? I ask because usually when I cost it out it doesn’t make financial sense (which I read as the gist of your post), it often does make cultural/family/life sense, but never financial sense. Also, good for you, I hope more people can make this choice!

mrtweetyhack 7y ago

Great, let's build a wall for all states to keep Idaho citizens out.

pmoriarty 7y ago

Does anyone else find this sort of thing super depressing? When I lived in New York and happened to travel outside the state, I'd regularly get people I ran across telling me how surprised they were to hear that I was from New York, because I was so nice and their impression (despite usually never having set foot in New York) was that New Yorkers were assholes. I told them that virtually everyone I ran across in New York was nice, but that it was a gigantic city and there were all sorts of people there, and because of that it's really not fair to paint all New Yorkers with such a broad brush. I'd get similar reactions when I traveled abroad and revealed to people that I was from America. One person even told me that they thought every American carried a gun. I had to tell them that, no, actually no one I knew owned a gun, the majority of Americans nation-wide did not own a gun, and it was a country of 300 million people of all sorts, many from other countries and of many different cultures, different politics, different views of the world. It's really not fair to paint all Americans with one broad brush. So now I hear that in Idaho simply being from California (a state with a population of 40 million people) could get you painted with a broad brush in Idaho. It just seems so petty, insular, xenophobic, and close minded. Wouldn't the world be better if we welcomed those who are different from us, at least as long as they also wanted to live with us in peace? Maybe mine's considered a stereotypically Californian attitude that would get me pounded down in Idaho. If so, that's just really sad.

jakeogh 7y ago
There's nothing wrong with having effective tools to protect life. If people know you have an irrational fear of some object, they just wont tell you. I live in Tucson, we have _plenty_ of guns, but in general, we carry them conceiled. There's no pemission slip. Weapons are the ultimate form of equality, they prevent the strong from ruling the weak. Places where only the criminals are armed are totally different.
- matchbok 7y ago
  > Weapons are the ultimate form of equality ...only if everyone is willing to carry? The lack of understanding here is astounding. The claim of lax gun laws promotes safety has been debunked hundreds of times. The average person does not have to have to carry a firearm in order to be safe, believe it or not. It's sad, really, how people think owning guns makes them safer or more tough. Statistically the former is 100% not true. Maybe people have this fiction in their heads that they will "save the day" from the bad guy (or government?) Seems childish.

blissofbeing 7y ago

We are all more connected than we realize. Issues in California are issues for everyone, this protectionist attitude gets us nowhere in today's world where it's easier than ever to live anywhere.

masonic 7y ago

Marina Hinojosa of PBS did an episode of "America by the Numbers" hunting racism in Idaho: https://youtube.com/watch?v=R2TDc1lgZrQ https://youtube.com/watch?v=R2TDc1lgZrQ

temeculamary 7y ago

I find it interesting that Californian are disliked so much. California is made up of ALL walks of life. Every nationality comes to California and many leave after they see just how expensive it is to live . What I don’t understand with the way the Boisians mindset is, the locals don’t like that the prices are going up. Who is selling their homes at premium prices? Locals cashing in on the supply and demand. Yes, your neighbors and friends. The question really should go to your government, what are you doing to help with this supply and demand that is driving the prices up? Why aren’t wages going up as there should be an abundance of construction jobs building new homes to help with demand. Not all Californian are rich, just middle class people who have been taken out of the housing market in California by those coming into California. We don’t all agree with the way Californian is being run so we want a better way of life, just like those in Boise. Again your anger should be directed at your government officials. What are the doing to help with the cost of living there

Jojo2019 7y ago

I moved to ID back in 1999, and it was a great place - hardly any traffic, people were friendly, everyone accepting of each other, etc. Within the last 5 years, I have seen an influx of people from AZ and CA moving in that is changing all that. They are bringing in the big city "snottiness" and behaviors that come with it. Also, they are bringing in their liberal attitudes to a state that is historically conservative and Republican. I left recently out of disgust, as it's not the place I moved to and loved. A lot of the people from CA seem to be standoffish to anyone not born and raised in the western states, and it shows in their cliquish attitudes. I won't be back to the Boise area in the future unless it changes.