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I'm still amazed Tesla has decided not to use lidar and instead just stick with cheap cameras. Better sensors are there, they're available, they're cheap and th

by anonu 7y ago

I'm still amazed Tesla has decided not to use lidar and instead just stick with cheap cameras. Better sensors are there, they're available, they're cheap and they can probably "see" better than plain old cameras... it doesn't make too much sense not to use them IMHO. But then again, I am not coding NNs for Tesla...

JoeSmithson 7y ago
I think they advertised self-driving as a future feature of the Model 3, so I think they are limited to whatever Model 3's currently have.
option 7y ago
lidars are used to generate humongous amounts of labeled training data for depth perception networks so that you don’t have to use them during inference
londons_explore 7y ago
While LIDAR's are certainly 'better' from a technological standpoint than not having anything, from a business standpoint it's less clear. LIDAR's are cheap, but not cheap enough yet to not seriously affect the bottom line if you put them into every car. It also will kill the resale price of cars without it, which in turn hurts the companies image and stock price.
- nielsole 7y ago
  If you are first to market with a level 4 autonomous taxi, unit economics will likely be great regardless of whether you put LIDAR or cameras in.
  - londons_explore 7y ago
    Yes, but the current reality is they need to pay for the hardware, and still make a profit, without any guarantee of that autonomous taxi market. It all depends what you see are the chances of the autonomous taxi market developing within the lifetime of these cars.
cycrutchfield 7y ago
It’s not like they decided not to use it just because. Here is an interesting breakdown: https://cleantechnica.com/2016/07/29/tesla-google-disagree-lidar-right/ https://cleantechnica.com/2016/07/29/tesla-google-disagree-l...
leesec 7y ago
You're underestimating the cost issue. Obviously if it was literally 0% extra cost they would have a value benefit. The problem is making a great and cheap and profitable electric vehicle.
mattrp 7y ago
Kaparthy has a good presentation outlining why they aren’t focused on lidar.. it’s pretty compelling logic.
- Shoop 7y ago
  Do you have a link handy? I couldn't find it with a quick google.
  - mattrp 7y ago
    It’s addressed in the autonomy day presentation if I’m not mistaken.
tim333 7y ago
Musk doesn't like it: >“Lidar is a fool’s errand,” Elon Musk said. “Anyone relying on lidar is doomed. Doomed! [They are] expensive sensors that are unnecessary. It’s like having a whole bunch of expensive appendices. Like, one appendix is bad, well now you have a whole bunch of them, it’s ridiculous, you’ll see.” https://techcrunch.com/2019/04/22/anyone-relying-on-lidar-is-doomed-elon-musk-says/ https://techcrunch.com/2019/04/22/anyone-relying-on-lidar-is...
dna_polymerase 7y ago
I recommend watching George Hotz's take on this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxuU5L2MEII https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxuU5L2MEII

by anonu 7y ago

JoeSmithson 7y ago

I think they advertised self-driving as a future feature of the Model 3, so I think they are limited to whatever Model 3's currently have.

option 7y ago

lidars are used to generate humongous amounts of labeled training data for depth perception networks so that you don’t have to use them during inference

londons_explore 7y ago

While LIDAR's are certainly 'better' from a technological standpoint than not having anything, from a business standpoint it's less clear. LIDAR's are cheap, but not cheap enough yet to not seriously affect the bottom line if you put them into every car. It also will kill the resale price of cars without it, which in turn hurts the companies image and stock price.

nielsole 7y ago
If you are first to market with a level 4 autonomous taxi, unit economics will likely be great regardless of whether you put LIDAR or cameras in.
- londons_explore 7y ago
  Yes, but the current reality is they need to pay for the hardware, and still make a profit, without any guarantee of that autonomous taxi market. It all depends what you see are the chances of the autonomous taxi market developing within the lifetime of these cars.

cycrutchfield 7y ago

It’s not like they decided not to use it just because. Here is an interesting breakdown: https://cleantechnica.com/2016/07/29/tesla-google-disagree-lidar-right/ https://cleantechnica.com/2016/07/29/tesla-google-disagree-l...

leesec 7y ago

You're underestimating the cost issue. Obviously if it was literally 0% extra cost they would have a value benefit. The problem is making a great and cheap and profitable electric vehicle.

mattrp 7y ago

Kaparthy has a good presentation outlining why they aren’t focused on lidar.. it’s pretty compelling logic.

Shoop 7y ago
Do you have a link handy? I couldn't find it with a quick google.
- mattrp 7y ago
  It’s addressed in the autonomy day presentation if I’m not mistaken.

tim333 7y ago

Musk doesn't like it: >“Lidar is a fool’s errand,” Elon Musk said. “Anyone relying on lidar is doomed. Doomed! [They are] expensive sensors that are unnecessary. It’s like having a whole bunch of expensive appendices. Like, one appendix is bad, well now you have a whole bunch of them, it’s ridiculous, you’ll see.” https://techcrunch.com/2019/04/22/anyone-relying-on-lidar-is-doomed-elon-musk-says/ https://techcrunch.com/2019/04/22/anyone-relying-on-lidar-is...

dna_polymerase 7y ago

I recommend watching George Hotz's take on this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxuU5L2MEII https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxuU5L2MEII