9 ms·

The decision has already been overturned: https://toronto.citynews.ca/2019/11/09/quebec-overturns-decision-to-deny-french-woman-immigration-documents-over-lang

The decision has already been overturned: https://toronto.citynews.ca/2019/11/09/quebec-overturns-decision-to-deny-french-woman-immigration-documents-over-language-issue/ https://toronto.citynews.ca/2019/11/09/quebec-overturns-deci...

Waterluvian 7y ago
Mistakes like this happen all the time. What's truly telling is how fast it was reversed. One could argue its only because it got national coverage but I don't think we know for sure. Ultimately I don't think it matters unless we start seeing a recurring pattern.
- jefft255 7y ago
  Indeed let's hope it was basically a mistake; right now I have a few French (from France) friends doing phds at the same university, and I'm pretty sure that they will have English chapters in their thesis (research paper insertion).
  - friendlybus 7y ago
    Do they comment on Québécois French? I hear it is closer to 19th century French than modern France.
    - jefft255 7y ago
      Sure they do, but usually it is only a few weeks of adaptation. The differences are well documented, look them up! It's still the same language.
    - umanwizard 7y ago
      That's a bit of a myth. The dialects have been evolving separately since that time; you can't say either is closer to the branch point than the other. The reason French people believe this is because yes, there is some old vocabulary like souliers retained in Quebec, but on the other hand there are also some features that they've lost over time that are retained in France, like using si instead of oui to contradict a negative.
  - 908B64B197 7y ago
    The student in the article was warned years ago her thesis wouldn't waive her requirement to pass a standardized test. All they have to do is add either a test or transcripts for 3 years of high school in French. Over time I've known many folks who obtained permanent residency through the exact same program (some of them after completing PhD almost exclusively in English). All they had to do was a test.
    - jefft255 7y ago
      Thanks for the info I’ll make sure my friends are aware of this!
- cmer 7y ago
  There already is a recurring pattern. Not exactly like this situation, but a pattern of discriminating against anything that is not French. It's getting completely out of hands. Soon, "non historic anglos" (ie immigrants) won't be allowed to get their hydro bill, correspondence from the government or any service in English. We moved out of Quebec mostly for the politics 5 years ago and I'm so glad I did. We're never going back.
  - deanCommie 7y ago
    I mean you wouldn't have this reaction if you moved to France. Quebec's official language is French - regardless of its status within the rest of Canada. Why would you move it immigrate to Quebec if you are not willing to learn French? If you like Canada but not French, go to Vancouver or Toronto
    - frabbit 7y ago
      Exactly. Ce n'est pas facile à apprendre mais c'est possible.
    - jszymborski 7y ago
      Anglophones built Quebec alongside Francophones. We've as much right to this province as francophones. Also, here's a hot-tip: telling people they don't belong somewhere and that they should go live elsewhere is usually a really great heuristic of when you're extremely wrong.
      - braythwayt 7y ago
        Well, the post you're replying to puts things in a way I'm not comfortable with. But inside it is something very correct: French is the official language of Québec. If you want to live there and not do business with people in French, that is your problem. I wouldn't say you don't belong there. By all means belong there. But the official language is French today, regardless of who built the province. If you want the province's official languages to be English and French, well, democracy is there to make that possible, even if it's unlikely at the moment. You have a right to live in Québec. But for the moment, not a right to demand that businesses or government agencies communicate with you in English. --- As for me, I lve in Ontario. And FWIW, I believe very deeply that our society should beend over backwards to do business with people in a language they understand. So if someone is in trouble with the law, I am happy to have my tax dollars go to providing them with a translator. I think government web sites should have all sorts of translations available. I believe in the melting pot. But... All I can do is advocate for it and vote for it. If a different province votes for something else... I respect that. I feel that official languages is in a very different bucket than laws about what people can wear in public.
- floki999 7y ago
  It sure is a recurring pattern! Has been for decades.
- 908B64B197 7y ago
  I must note that she did end up sending the documents the government asked her back in 2018. They merely reopened the case and saw that there were no missing documents. She could have gotten the same result by re-submitting the application instead of going to the media. This whole story sounds more like some politicians are trying to get a spin out of it.

Waterluvian 7y ago

Mistakes like this happen all the time. What's truly telling is how fast it was reversed. One could argue its only because it got national coverage but I don't think we know for sure. Ultimately I don't think it matters unless we start seeing a recurring pattern.

jefft255 7y ago
Indeed let's hope it was basically a mistake; right now I have a few French (from France) friends doing phds at the same university, and I'm pretty sure that they will have English chapters in their thesis (research paper insertion).
- friendlybus 7y ago
  Do they comment on Québécois French? I hear it is closer to 19th century French than modern France.
  - jefft255 7y ago
    Sure they do, but usually it is only a few weeks of adaptation. The differences are well documented, look them up! It's still the same language.
  - umanwizard 7y ago
    That's a bit of a myth. The dialects have been evolving separately since that time; you can't say either is closer to the branch point than the other. The reason French people believe this is because yes, there is some old vocabulary like souliers retained in Quebec, but on the other hand there are also some features that they've lost over time that are retained in France, like using si instead of oui to contradict a negative.
- 908B64B197 7y ago
  The student in the article was warned years ago her thesis wouldn't waive her requirement to pass a standardized test. All they have to do is add either a test or transcripts for 3 years of high school in French. Over time I've known many folks who obtained permanent residency through the exact same program (some of them after completing PhD almost exclusively in English). All they had to do was a test.
  - jefft255 7y ago
    Thanks for the info I’ll make sure my friends are aware of this!
cmer 7y ago
There already is a recurring pattern. Not exactly like this situation, but a pattern of discriminating against anything that is not French. It's getting completely out of hands. Soon, "non historic anglos" (ie immigrants) won't be allowed to get their hydro bill, correspondence from the government or any service in English. We moved out of Quebec mostly for the politics 5 years ago and I'm so glad I did. We're never going back.
- deanCommie 7y ago
  I mean you wouldn't have this reaction if you moved to France. Quebec's official language is French - regardless of its status within the rest of Canada. Why would you move it immigrate to Quebec if you are not willing to learn French? If you like Canada but not French, go to Vancouver or Toronto
  - frabbit 7y ago
    Exactly. Ce n'est pas facile à apprendre mais c'est possible.
  - jszymborski 7y ago
    Anglophones built Quebec alongside Francophones. We've as much right to this province as francophones. Also, here's a hot-tip: telling people they don't belong somewhere and that they should go live elsewhere is usually a really great heuristic of when you're extremely wrong.
    - braythwayt 7y ago
      Well, the post you're replying to puts things in a way I'm not comfortable with. But inside it is something very correct: French is the official language of Québec. If you want to live there and not do business with people in French, that is your problem. I wouldn't say you don't belong there. By all means belong there. But the official language is French today, regardless of who built the province. If you want the province's official languages to be English and French, well, democracy is there to make that possible, even if it's unlikely at the moment. You have a right to live in Québec. But for the moment, not a right to demand that businesses or government agencies communicate with you in English. --- As for me, I lve in Ontario. And FWIW, I believe very deeply that our society should beend over backwards to do business with people in a language they understand. So if someone is in trouble with the law, I am happy to have my tax dollars go to providing them with a translator. I think government web sites should have all sorts of translations available. I believe in the melting pot. But... All I can do is advocate for it and vote for it. If a different province votes for something else... I respect that. I feel that official languages is in a very different bucket than laws about what people can wear in public.
floki999 7y ago
It sure is a recurring pattern! Has been for decades.
908B64B197 7y ago
I must note that she did end up sending the documents the government asked her back in 2018. They merely reopened the case and saw that there were no missing documents. She could have gotten the same result by re-submitting the application instead of going to the media. This whole story sounds more like some politicians are trying to get a spin out of it.