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As a finish carpenter for a number of years and having to deal with fixing homeowners attempts at doing their own remodel efforts based on them watching youtube
by jnellis 7y ago
As a finish carpenter for a number of years and having to deal with fixing homeowners attempts at doing their own remodel efforts based on them watching youtube videos, I've come to general law regarding expertise or 'how to' videos. There's an inverse relationship between quality of video and accuracy of information (or maybe just usefulness of information.)
The majority of good polished videos have the least accurate or useful information. These I've surmised are people that would rather be into video production or youtube stardom than they would being actually good at the subject they profess. Alternatively, some of the worst grainy, shaky cam videos I've seen, usually on the jobsite, are some of the best practices, tricks of the trade or just informational rich videos you can get. These are people that are not into being youtube stars and are just part of the 'sharing community' as it maybe was originally envisioned. But as Rumsfeld said, there's known knowns, known unknowns and unknown unknowns, and when you're a homeowner watching how-to videos, its very difficult to know what you should know.... so most of them go by, instinctively, the quality of video production as their guide to what they should be doing.
Sure there are great craftsmen with great video quality and there are some really poor craftsmen with poor video quality but these are not the bulk of what's out there. What rises to the top of search offerings seems to be equally what's been marketed (poor craftsmen, high quality, "please like,share, and subscribe") or what's been organically liked (poor quality, high craftsmanship).
For the tradesmen out there dealing with homeowners, its now sometimes a bit of an uphill battle after homeowners have done their 'youtube' research and have determined how hard the job they've asked you to bid is going to be.
- ravenstine 7y agoI find that's true of most information. The higher the craftsmanship of the video, the worse the actual information being presented. Lectures, for instance, that are just a professor talking with his PowerPoint slides are almost always better than videos that put on a production with fancy graphics, jump cuts, and narration. Look at the news. The news with more spectacle tends to be of lower quality on average. Or anything that comes from Hollywood. Daytime and reality TV are extremely polished but mostly tripe from either an entertainment or informational perspective. The more time someone puts into a "production quality" video, the more they're trying to sell you something, even if it's just their brand awareness.
- angleofrepose 7y agoThe more I think about it and reflect on my (computer science) education I think more and more the lectures are awful. It is only the ease/ubiquity of creating them that has kept them around. Fancy graphics is by no means an indicator of good information, but neither are lectures. It blows my mind that I can be taught programming concepts, say data structures, on a PDF. That is insanity, it is a total divorce from the idea of computer science to begin with, to hide data and information in a non-executable environment. Someone has the quote that "pdfs are where data goes to die". Give me the data structure, let me ask questions of it, hold it in my hands and inspect it at the pace of my own thoughts. This is not what material provided in "lecture" through "slide decks" provide. The information density of lectures is also low, why are we anchored to the low bandwidth channel of voice (I could say the same about text writing or a textbook)? Give me the information, let me have it, then let's talk about it in organized discussion.
- lonelappde 7y agoDijkstra and the European school took a dim view of gluttonous Americans who refused to do computer science if they didn't have an expensive computer in their lap. Your pencils, paper, and brain are an executable environment.
- angleofrepose 7y agoI'm not sure what you're referring to but I'd be interested if you shared more. I don't know the references you make, though I do know the Alan Kay nano-Dijkstra quote. I contest your second point, by definition my pensil and paper are not executable environments. My brain is, but this gets us into the game of "how much computer can you simulate with your brain." Why do we play the game of simulate-the-computer? We've had computer environments for at least 40 years now that do that thinking for us, that answer our questions about control flow or definitions or alternate scenarios. We have them, they were thought up, written up and delivered. Yet as a field we value this stupid idea of working alone without help and don't teach these workflows using the computer as a partner. No, in 2019 if you can't do it on paper you don't know it. That's bullshit, yet here I am and I can do it on paper. I'm just sad for those who come after me and have to go through the same wasteful hazing.
- namelosw 7y ago'Polished' might be an result of large population of audience. If we take an example from programming: A fundamental Python or JavaScript course would have massive audiences. As a result, some of the video author would made money from their videos and then keep polishing the videos. In contrast, a in depth video guide on how to prove theorems in Coq would be very lucky if they have 10 audience... Not like the Olympic games or video games, where professionals' performance are pleasant to behold. The problem of 'How to' video is it encourages shallow information because the real professionals' work are either too arcane or too boring for the audience.
- ginko 7y agoI never understood why anyone in their right mind would want to learn programming through a video course. Programming languages are inherently text based, why wouldn't you rather read a denser tutorial or book than have someone spoonfeed you at a pace that's often either too slow or too fast and doesn't easily allow you to reread or skip sections.
- jowsie 7y agoBecause if you sit me in front of a dense book of text I'm going to read the same line 3 times over before noticing and the information still wouldn't have gone in. Different people learn in different ways.
- yabadabadoes 7y agoI have to agree with the OP, if something is primarily text oriented then it probably is more efficient to learn it using a great deal of text. The whole learning styles thing is not really something that should be perpetuated: https://www.psychologicalscience.org/news/releases/learning-styles-debunked-there-is-no-evidence-supporting-auditory-and-visual-learning-psychologists-say.html https://www.psychologicalscience.org/news/releases/learning-... Motivation and styles is probably a different matter. There is the problem that self motivated learners can only learn if they are motivated, but also that they can be led astray by materials that primarily motivate and entertain.
- dec0dedab0de 7y agoThat makes a lot of sense. I bet it holds true for most things. Though now I'm curious how well it holds up for video editing howto videos
- itronitron 7y agoI think the formula is a bit different for software tutorials as they can all easily look very similar (since they are basically showing the same thing.) Recently I have been watching a lot of blender tutorials and some people are much better than others at getting to the point and describing important details about what they are doing without losing the flow. If the first30 seconds of the video consist of the person clicking seemingly randomly around in their UI while talking about what they are going to be talking about then I usually just stop watching and move onto something else.
- derestructured 7y agoI also think this is just how education works broadly. Whatever information has been printed in ten million textbooks and distributed across ten thousand public schools by a legion of educators is at a stretch mostly accurate. Our actual best understanding of the universe is whatever was just mumbled in a graduate seminar by a half-asleep emeritus faculty member who doesn’t really mind that nobody heard it, because they’re bright kids and one of them will work it out if they think about it.
- jammygit 7y agoIt’s a little different in that textbook companies can find authors who may or may not present the information well and then help them with editing and sales. Also, in general, the very best books can only be written by a subject expert who can coherently hold enough of the subject in his/her head to find out how to express it. It’s rare but exists (tannenbaums operating systems for example?)
- jsmith99 7y agoOf course, because if something that poorly produced is at the top of the recommendations people must have found it really good.
- ryandrake 7y agoAs a die hard Jack Of All Trades handyman, I can't overstate how incredible a resource YouTube has been for me. You need to come at it with at least a small baseline of knowledge of what you're trying to attempt, good shop hygiene/safety habits, patience, a "measure twice, cut once" attitude, and so on. But once you get in the right mindset, there is just so much to learn there. I credit online resources for helping me to learn: Basic carpentry. I've built several pieces of furniture around my home including a pretty nice poker table (so, upholstery too). I built a 12'x6' shed in my back yard on a foundation that's not going to sink or slide over. Drywall and ceiling repair. Re-did a bunch of baseboard trim and only me and someone who knows what they're doing can find the mistakes. I know my limit though. I'm probably not going to attempt kitchen cabinetry or replace my roof for example. Basic plumbing. Gutted and replaced bathrooms and kitchens on multiple houses. Repaired a busted spa back to like new. Re-did sprinkler systems. Cautiously working my way up to gas lines--don't want to blow up my home. Basic car maintenance and repair. Everything from oil changes, brake pads up to replacing intake/exhaust systems, replacing a power steering system, light bodywork. Metal and fiberglass work. I'm building a single engine kit plane in my garage. Online resources have been vital, and there's no way I'd have gotten anywhere on this project without them. You need to have a good filter. You're right that the highly polished "Brought To You By Tool Company!" productions with the generic 80s porn music soundtracks are pretty bad, and the "Hey Guys! Like And Subscribe" bros are always the worst. Find the videos without background music and with bad lighting and sound quality where the person is actually grunting and doing the work in real time along with you. They're usually the best.
- nitwit005 7y agoSomeone highly skilled at one activity may only have enough content for a handful of videos, so there is also a tendency for the best videos to be old, have near zero subscribers, and be harder to find as a result.
- resu_nimda 7y agoAny examples of great craftsmen with great video quality? I recently discovered the "Essential Craftsman" channel which seems to be pretty good all around. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzr30osBdTmuFUS8IfXtXmg https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzr30osBdTmuFUS8IfXtXmg
- agumonkey 7y agomathias wandel comes to mind
- the_cat_kittles 7y agolol this is funny because he is definitely better than some, he is absolutely not even close to a master craftsman
- agumonkey 7y agowhat do you call a master craftsman ? his pantorouter build is far above the usual craftmanship IMO. Maybe not the best but clearly worth knowing.
- dimator 7y agoThis Old House has a great channel, at the intersection of production value _and_ expertise https://youtu.be/t8xkMoM4t9w https://youtu.be/t8xkMoM4t9w
- mrob 7y ago"Chinese Cooking Demystified" has the best presentation of any cooking channel I've seen. Simple, clear instructions, and it gets straight to the point without wasting your time. I'm not an expert on Chinese cooking myself, but the recipes appear to be accurate. I tried their baozi recipe and it worked great. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC54SLBnD5k5U3Q6N__UjbAw https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC54SLBnD5k5U3Q6N__UjbAw
- the_cat_kittles 7y agoagree completely. and it makes me realize- there is a skill to recognizing who is and isnt full of shit on youtube. and that skill is very valuable
- userbinator 7y agoAlternatively, some of the worst grainy, shaky cam videos I've seen, usually on the jobsite, "on the jobsite" is probably the most important point, because then you get to see the actual process as it happens, instead of someone talking about it and a series of jump-cuts of them barely doing anything. I feel like the quality-vs-accuracy thing happens with websites too; the highly-SEO'd flashy sites also tend to be the most devoid of actual detailed information, and personal/smaller sites have the most interesting detail, but unfortunately search engines almost always pick up the former.
- TeMPOraL 7y agoI have the same hard-learned rule of thumb wrt. websites in general. The cleaner looking, the more up to date with current web trends a website, the worse information on it. I've also spotted an inverse correlation between the amount of ads on page and trustworthiness of the information on it. I explain it to myself in a similar way: people with nice, clean, heavy websites, sprinkling ads in between the text, are content marketers. Their job isn't to educate you. It's to regurgitate whatever bullshit they can find on topic[0] in order to create SEO and social-share optimized vehicles they can then attach advertising or affiliate payload to. -- [0] - I worked alongside content marketers few jobs back. There was zero verification or care about accuracy of what was posted, and a lot of copy-pasting+rewriting of similar content from competition.
- sdan 7y agoSimilarly for math: When learning calc, websites from universities that were written in basic HTML with some latex/examples or on some pdf were far better than anything else. There are also some good YT videos where they do the problems which were good as well. Quality significantly diminishes the moment you use your face in the video (because it's completely unnecessary when explaining how to do some series testing in calc for example)
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- rorykoehler 7y agoIt’s time for the anti-seo spam filter for search engines
- pinouchon 7y agoI have been thinking about this recently. That applies to physical products too: the highest quality products are usually not the ones with the best marketing. What we need is a SEO-resistant search engine (for tutorials, products & services). Maybe a way to approach this would be to have the engine function more like an independent amazon-review engine where it's really hard to put fake reviews and have a "quality index" that's community based. I think that the successor to google will look like this: a search engine that cuts through SEO and marketing, and shows you the actual good stuff.
- z3t4 7y agoThis beautifully describes a big problem/pain that when people want to buy something they know little about, they have to use other cues, then those cues become more important then the product itself. Maybe it can be solved with a PageRank algorithm, but for upvotes/downvotes?
- Dowwie 7y agoThose unfamiliar with a trade weight presentation of competence too heavily in decision making. This applies to contractors, auto body repair, and so forth. You pay a premium with the shop that has a pleasant waiting area and smiling salespeople yet the quality of the work is no better, even potentially worse, than what the unpolished one offers.
- xorand 7y ago>" There's an inverse relationship between quality of video and accuracy of information" This is a quote to remember. You nailed it.
- dugmartin 7y agoFor the same reason I usually search for “<brand> sucks” for honest reviews I’ve learned that some of the best YouTube instructional videos for carpentry are the “don’t do this” videos, especially the inspection videos when a professional comes in to fix something. I just built a screened porch addition and am finishing the hip shingles today and I must have watched 10 roofing screwup videos before I started on the roof.
- wongarsu 7y agoThere are three factors that decide video quality: the host, the content and the polish (including camera+audio). If a video of a grumpy man holding a shaky camera has many views you better listen to him, what he says has to be phenomenal
- renox 7y agoNot surprising: being good at something != being good at teaching this thing. I remember seeing someone showing on TV how to open oysters, he was doing it with his bare hands!!