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could you expand on this? why do they do this?

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
rriepe 7y ago
I'm an emotional philosopher, not a psychologist. But here's my take: There are two fundamental arguments of the self: additive and subtractive. The additive argument is called love. It tells us to add to the self. The subtractive argument is called disgust. It tells us to remove from the self. Codependents are addicted to the chemical rewards of love, while narcissists are addicted to the chemical rewards of disgust. Narcissists therefore have an overwhelming need to eject things as "not good enough" from their extended self. If I tell a stranger his haircut looks stupid, I don't get a disgust reward. If I tell my son that, I do get the reward because he is part of my extended self. Basically, narcissists have extremely high standards for themselves. They want to become fast friends because they want (need, really) to share that terrible burden.
- friendlybus 7y ago
  Narcissists don't have a real self, they have a developed mask that sits on top of it. Usually developed in childhood for a parent. You can't police feelings into evidence of pathology. Some people are more disgust sensitive than others. There is light and dark to everything, including love and disgust.
  - rriepe 7y ago
    The mask is a metaphor. I'm talking about real things. If you're addicted to a feeling then that is a pathology. You're right that love and disgust can both be good or bad, but nobody said otherwise.
    - friendlybus 7y ago
      The mask is a real thing. >You're right that love and disgust can both be good or bad, but nobody said otherwise You did when you made disgust a fundamental negative and love a fundamental positive. But whatever. >If you're addicted to a feeling then that is a pathology. Not necessarily, some people deliberately go through bad feelings for the sake of getting to the bottom of something and integrating that answer. That can seem like an addiction from the outside. You do you.
      - rriepe 7y ago
        No, the mask is an abstract metaphor. I said subtractive and additive. Chiseling is subtractive. Do you think chiseling is fundamentally negative? What point are you trying to make with your "bad feelings" comment? That narcissists are actually fiercely introspective? What are you even on about? You say "You do you" but you're the one who butted in. Next time, first know what you're talking about.
        friendlybus 7y ago
        Nobody knows where feelings come from, what makes them real and but not a mask, a behaviour people can embody? They are both real. You said: "There are two fundamental arguments of the self" You conflated criticizing haircuts with a disgust reward and constructed a view on narcissists that is defined by feelings nearly everyone feels. Your view on feelings is too limited to identify a narcissist, as demonstrated by the idea that you can go through feelings and appear to be an addict from outside, but not be one. Butted in to what? A public thread? The mask idea comes from psychology. A narcissist suffers narcissitic wounds at an early age and learns to develop a false persona to please abusive parents instead of a healthy self that grows over time. They stay locked in a cycle of abuse trying to escape past trauma instead of dealing with it and it is unleashed on those around them when the tension becomes too much. They frequently rely on charm and a single talent to get them achievements to please said relationship and are found to be brittle or liars when challenged. They will suck the life-force out of others to fuel their own lack of a self. There is a whole bunch of psychological information on this. This all has an overlap with the external version of the story, the narcissus myth. Narcissus is a spirit that embodies the story of self love, being so captivating to some. He has multiple outcomes. In one he captures the attention of another so completely that their life becomes drained away and the adorer becomes no more than an echo in a forest, which mirrors the fueling the self & abuse cycle from psychology. In another part he sees his reflection in a pool and becomes unable to leave his own reflection and eventually suicides or recognizes that the love cannot be reciprocated and becomes a flower, which mirrors a lot of the empathy focused therapy techniques.
friendlybus 7y ago
Read Malignant Self Love by Sam Vaknin and come to your own conclusions. The discussion in this post is fairly shallow. Pushing the requirement to judge character into a few key signs is not really going to work.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

I'm an emotional philosopher, not a psychologist. But here's my take: There are two fundamental arguments of the self: additive and subtractive. The additive argument is called love. It tells us to add to the self. The subtractive argument is called disgust. It tells us to remove from the self. Codependents are addicted to the chemical rewards of love, while narcissists are addicted to the chemical rewards of disgust. Narcissists therefore have an overwhelming need to eject things as "not good enough" from their extended self. If I tell a stranger his haircut looks stupid, I don't get a disgust reward. If I tell my son that, I do get the reward because he is part of my extended self. Basically, narcissists have extremely high standards for themselves. They want to become fast friends because they want (need, really) to share that terrible burden.

friendlybus 7y ago
Narcissists don't have a real self, they have a developed mask that sits on top of it. Usually developed in childhood for a parent. You can't police feelings into evidence of pathology. Some people are more disgust sensitive than others. There is light and dark to everything, including love and disgust.
- rriepe 7y ago
  The mask is a metaphor. I'm talking about real things. If you're addicted to a feeling then that is a pathology. You're right that love and disgust can both be good or bad, but nobody said otherwise.
  - friendlybus 7y ago
    The mask is a real thing. >You're right that love and disgust can both be good or bad, but nobody said otherwise You did when you made disgust a fundamental negative and love a fundamental positive. But whatever. >If you're addicted to a feeling then that is a pathology. Not necessarily, some people deliberately go through bad feelings for the sake of getting to the bottom of something and integrating that answer. That can seem like an addiction from the outside. You do you.
    - rriepe 7y ago
      No, the mask is an abstract metaphor. I said subtractive and additive. Chiseling is subtractive. Do you think chiseling is fundamentally negative? What point are you trying to make with your "bad feelings" comment? That narcissists are actually fiercely introspective? What are you even on about? You say "You do you" but you're the one who butted in. Next time, first know what you're talking about.
      - friendlybus 7y ago
        Nobody knows where feelings come from, what makes them real and but not a mask, a behaviour people can embody? They are both real. You said: "There are two fundamental arguments of the self" You conflated criticizing haircuts with a disgust reward and constructed a view on narcissists that is defined by feelings nearly everyone feels. Your view on feelings is too limited to identify a narcissist, as demonstrated by the idea that you can go through feelings and appear to be an addict from outside, but not be one. Butted in to what? A public thread? The mask idea comes from psychology. A narcissist suffers narcissitic wounds at an early age and learns to develop a false persona to please abusive parents instead of a healthy self that grows over time. They stay locked in a cycle of abuse trying to escape past trauma instead of dealing with it and it is unleashed on those around them when the tension becomes too much. They frequently rely on charm and a single talent to get them achievements to please said relationship and are found to be brittle or liars when challenged. They will suck the life-force out of others to fuel their own lack of a self. There is a whole bunch of psychological information on this. This all has an overlap with the external version of the story, the narcissus myth. Narcissus is a spirit that embodies the story of self love, being so captivating to some. He has multiple outcomes. In one he captures the attention of another so completely that their life becomes drained away and the adorer becomes no more than an echo in a forest, which mirrors the fueling the self & abuse cycle from psychology. In another part he sees his reflection in a pool and becomes unable to leave his own reflection and eventually suicides or recognizes that the love cannot be reciprocated and becomes a flower, which mirrors a lot of the empathy focused therapy techniques.

friendlybus 7y ago

Read Malignant Self Love by Sam Vaknin and come to your own conclusions. The discussion in this post is fairly shallow. Pushing the requirement to judge character into a few key signs is not really going to work.