4 ms·

They committed a crime (crossing a border illegally). What should you call it if not illegal immigration? What do you call robbing a bank? Undocumented withd

They committed a crime (crossing a border illegally). What should you call it if not illegal immigration? What do you call robbing a bank? Undocumented withdrawal? No, it's a crime.

fzeroracer 7y ago
People that smoke Marijuana have also committed a crime. As well as people that jaywalk, or violate any of the obscure laws the various states have on the books. They're all criminals, wouldn't you agree? We should call them illegal citizens. Then we can start working towards deporting such criminals as the article demonstrates.
- ndzig 7y ago
  They are not citizens. That's like calling a car thief an "illegal owner of a car".
- Mikeb85 7y ago
  > We should call them illegal citizens. Then we can start working towards deporting such criminals as the article demonstrates. Well international law prevents you from making someone stateless so they get thrown in jail instead. But yes, non-citizens who commit crimes are generally deported. Also, the US classes crimes as either felonies or misdemeanours (possibly more categories?). In Canada we have indictable crimes, summary offences and things like jaywalking aren't even crimes, just ticketable offences. It's disingenuous of you to compare something like jaywalking to actual crimes.
  - fzeroracer 7y ago
    International law hasn't stopped the US before. So why bother? We can just deport these illegal citizens to the place that best matches their heritage. Problem solved. And in the US, jaywalking is a crime. A crime is a crime, which makes jaywalking a crime all the same. If they decided to jaywalk, then they deserve to be deported for their criminal actions. For reference: Crossing the boarder illegally is a misdemeanor just like jaywalking.
    - Buge 7y ago
      >International law hasn't stopped the US before. So why bother? Because we should try to improve the situation not make it worse. I'm also not sure which international law violations you're talking about.
    - manigandham 7y ago
      Crossing a federal border to enter a sovereign nation is nothing like jaywalking. Crimes have levels of seriousness, and non-citizens have more serious consequences from committing crimes including deportation.
  - dbcurtis 7y ago
    The US term you are looking for is “infraction”, which applies to traffic tickets and the like. Felony is overused at the moment, IMHO. Lawmakers that want to appear tough on crime make felonies out of non-violent crimes.
  - pjc50 7y ago
    That was kind of my point, that immigration belongs in the same category as jaywalking and not "actual crimes". In both cases all someone is doing is stepping across a line.
    - manigandham 7y ago
      There is a massive difference between a national border and a crosswalk.
crooked-v 7y ago
If it was a crime, there would need to be a trial before deporting them.
- manigandham 7y ago
  Trials are for citizens. Immigrants do get due process though and stand before a judge.
  - crooked-v 7y ago
    > Trials are for citizens. Wrong. Non-citizens who are accused of committing crimes get trials.
pjc50 7y ago
Quite often the border crossing was legal. Then someone overstays or fails to comply with the (often obscure) requirements. Then they are .. existing illegally? Or in the case of asylum seekers and refugees, what is effectively being said is that it's illegal for them to flee a war zone?
- manigandham 7y ago
  Overstaying a visa means they are an illegal resident and must leave or get new permission to stay. Obscurity is not an excuse to not follow the law. Likewise for asylum seekers, it's illegal to cross into a country without permission. You can flee, apply for asylum, and enter when that asylum is granted. There are also rules on when, where, and which countries you're allowed to apply for. These terms and concepts are not difficult, if you have no intention of misconstruing or creating outrage.
  - pjc50 7y ago
    > You can flee, apply for asylum, and enter when that asylum is granted. Other way round. Asylum application must be made after arrival. You made a mistake in knowing what the rules are, so clearly it's only fair that you and your family are deported now.
    - manigandham 7y ago
      Asylum seekers can apply at or within the border, refugees can apply outside the border. This is how people defect from foreign countries. Applying does not give you permission to enter a country, that's only once you are granted protection. Depending on the circumstances, sometimes temporary entry is allowed. However if you're inside the border without permission then currently you're detained instead of immediately deported while the case is processed to help asylum seekers. Those are the rules, and as a legal immigrant and naturalized US Citizen, I have absolutely no fear of deportation.

They committed a crime (crossing a border illegally). What should you call it if not illegal immigration? What do you call robbing a bank? Undocumented withdrawal? No, it's a crime.

fzeroracer 7y ago

People that smoke Marijuana have also committed a crime. As well as people that jaywalk, or violate any of the obscure laws the various states have on the books. They're all criminals, wouldn't you agree? We should call them illegal citizens. Then we can start working towards deporting such criminals as the article demonstrates.

ndzig 7y ago
They are not citizens. That's like calling a car thief an "illegal owner of a car".
Mikeb85 7y ago
> We should call them illegal citizens. Then we can start working towards deporting such criminals as the article demonstrates. Well international law prevents you from making someone stateless so they get thrown in jail instead. But yes, non-citizens who commit crimes are generally deported. Also, the US classes crimes as either felonies or misdemeanours (possibly more categories?). In Canada we have indictable crimes, summary offences and things like jaywalking aren't even crimes, just ticketable offences. It's disingenuous of you to compare something like jaywalking to actual crimes.
- fzeroracer 7y ago
  International law hasn't stopped the US before. So why bother? We can just deport these illegal citizens to the place that best matches their heritage. Problem solved. And in the US, jaywalking is a crime. A crime is a crime, which makes jaywalking a crime all the same. If they decided to jaywalk, then they deserve to be deported for their criminal actions. For reference: Crossing the boarder illegally is a misdemeanor just like jaywalking.
  - Buge 7y ago
    >International law hasn't stopped the US before. So why bother? Because we should try to improve the situation not make it worse. I'm also not sure which international law violations you're talking about.
  - manigandham 7y ago
    Crossing a federal border to enter a sovereign nation is nothing like jaywalking. Crimes have levels of seriousness, and non-citizens have more serious consequences from committing crimes including deportation.
- dbcurtis 7y ago
  The US term you are looking for is “infraction”, which applies to traffic tickets and the like. Felony is overused at the moment, IMHO. Lawmakers that want to appear tough on crime make felonies out of non-violent crimes.
- pjc50 7y ago
  That was kind of my point, that immigration belongs in the same category as jaywalking and not "actual crimes". In both cases all someone is doing is stepping across a line.
  - manigandham 7y ago
    There is a massive difference between a national border and a crosswalk.

crooked-v 7y ago

If it was a crime, there would need to be a trial before deporting them.

manigandham 7y ago
Trials are for citizens. Immigrants do get due process though and stand before a judge.
- crooked-v 7y ago
  > Trials are for citizens. Wrong. Non-citizens who are accused of committing crimes get trials.

pjc50 7y ago

Quite often the border crossing was legal. Then someone overstays or fails to comply with the (often obscure) requirements. Then they are .. existing illegally? Or in the case of asylum seekers and refugees, what is effectively being said is that it's illegal for them to flee a war zone?

manigandham 7y ago
Overstaying a visa means they are an illegal resident and must leave or get new permission to stay. Obscurity is not an excuse to not follow the law. Likewise for asylum seekers, it's illegal to cross into a country without permission. You can flee, apply for asylum, and enter when that asylum is granted. There are also rules on when, where, and which countries you're allowed to apply for. These terms and concepts are not difficult, if you have no intention of misconstruing or creating outrage.
- pjc50 7y ago
  > You can flee, apply for asylum, and enter when that asylum is granted. Other way round. Asylum application must be made after arrival. You made a mistake in knowing what the rules are, so clearly it's only fair that you and your family are deported now.
  - manigandham 7y ago
    Asylum seekers can apply at or within the border, refugees can apply outside the border. This is how people defect from foreign countries. Applying does not give you permission to enter a country, that's only once you are granted protection. Depending on the circumstances, sometimes temporary entry is allowed. However if you're inside the border without permission then currently you're detained instead of immediately deported while the case is processed to help asylum seekers. Those are the rules, and as a legal immigrant and naturalized US Citizen, I have absolutely no fear of deportation.