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> Nuclear plants can last 40-80+ years French nuclear power plants will need >>$100 billion investments in the near future to keep them running. Many of them
by lispm 7y ago
> Nuclear plants can last 40-80+ years
French nuclear power plants will need >>$100 billion investments in the near future to keep them running.
Many of them will reach their projected life time in the coming 2020 decade. Let's see how France will replace them or keep them running. My bet is that they keep them running, because they have little chance to replace them in the 20-30 decade. For the French government, which owns most of the plants though EDF, the problem to replace them is greater than the perceived security problem.
If France would NOW start to plan (plan -> build -> operate) for additional nuclear plants, then it would take at least 15-20 years until a new one is operational.
(edit) France may want to decide in the early 20s about six new EPR 2 with 15 years construction time... Thus the current nuclear landscape has to be kept running until the end 30s.
> 80 nuclear reactors would now cost €1600 billion euros for Germany. This would still be cheaper than the estimated costs for the solar and wind buildout that is underway.
It's difficult to set up the renewable energy landscape in Germany, but it comes with decentralized lower-risk technologies. Stuff a less state-oriented economy can built. Germany by far has not a centralized state controlled economy like France. Thus the German Energiewende is also a way to decentralize energy production and to get away from a state controlled oligopoly for energy production - currently the electricity production is still largely controlled by four large companies which have their own regions.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_großen_Vier_(Energieversorgung) https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_großen_Vier_(Energieversor...
For several years none of these big four companies has really invested in and supported the Energiewende - because they surely want to keep their monopoly in their region. Which is the opposite of an open market for energy production.
For 80 new nuclear power plants there is no space in a relatively densely populated country like Germany with a short coast.
The local acceptance in the population of new and large-scale nuclear is around zero. Null. Nothing. Every new nuclear will face much longer delays in court than any wind turbine ever will. Nuclear is a technology that's dead in Germany. If we look at the US, there hasn't been much progress on nuclear power plants either - even though the country is much larger, less dense populated AND has a need for nuclear technology in the military. Nuclear worked better in a centralized France which needs nuclear technology for its military or in more authoritarian countries like China where independent control does not exist.
> 80 nuclear reactors would now cost €1600 billion euros for Germany.
and would take >4 decades to be rolled out. By then Germany is 90% renewable for electricity production. But with a decentralized modern grid.
France is currently struggling to build ONE new nuclear power plant: Flamanville. A technical design of the early 90s. Four times more expensive than projected and going online maybe in 2023 - with a construction start from 2007. Largely state financed and state controlled.
http://world-nuclear-news.org/Articles/EDF-warns-of-added-costs-of-Flamanville-EPR-weld-r http://world-nuclear-news.org/Articles/EDF-warns-of-added-co...
- Mirioron 7y agoIf there's no space for nuclear power plants, how are you going to find space for renewables? I can't think of any renewable sources that would take less space than nuclear, especially in Europe since we're further north than the US and that makes solar take up even more space.
- lispm 7y ago> If there's no space for nuclear power plants Renewable energy production and nuclear power plants have very different space requirements. > find space for renewables Germany has more than 30000 wind turbines. For example here in North Germany it's planned to increase the offshore wind energy production by a factor of three in the coming decade. This offshore space is available.
- loeg 7y ago> Renewable energy production and nuclear power plants have very different space requirements. Chiefly, that wind and solar require much more of it.
- lispm 7y agoThey also have many more space options. A farmer can put one or more wind turbine somewhere on his farm. OTOH having your own nuclear power plant on your farm is usually not an option.
- adrianN 7y agoYou can only put nuclear power plants next to sufficiently large rivers that can provide cooling. On the other hand you can put solar panels pretty much on every roof and wind turbines in any place with sufficiently low NIMBY density and a bit of wind.
- emsign 7y agoMost roofs still have no solar panels on top in Germany. There's plenty of space for that. You don't have to give up as much space as you'd think for renewables. Nuclear on the other hand, good luck fighting those lawsuits against the local population. I can't think of any area in Germany that is so underpopulated or desperate for tax revenue, that the local population would be willing to live next to a nuclear plant. There's no "space" for nuclear in Germany in that regard at all.