5 ms·

When I read a description of a narcissist, I think "that sounds like the description of an average human to me".

by mjfl 7y ago

jdc 7y ago
Well it is a tragically common trait these days.
- jacquesm 7y ago
  Instagram and Facebook really fuel that trend.
  - throwaway35784 7y ago
    Tragically all the narcissists are on there with their selfies hopelessly looking for love from all the other narcissists psychologically unable to give it.
bilbo0s 7y ago
There was a time it was not so common a trait. I distinctly remember the 70's and 80's when there were a large number of people who I would say "lacked confidence" so to speak. Kind of unsure of themselves, shy and retiring types. As we moved into the 21st century, it does seem like lack of confidence has gone away. People are almost "over confident" sometimes.
- cj 7y ago
  > People are almost "over confident" sometimes. Is it possible that people are by and large the same, but that social media simply makes it very easy for people lacking confidence to come across as more confident than they really are?
  - ashelmire 7y ago
    I suspect it's more that the very confident have their messages amplified on social media. Most people I encounter in person are not like that.
- throwaway35784 7y ago
  Ironically the Internet was founded by those trying to escape the narcs and now it's overrun by them too. Empaths running for the hills.
  - philwelch 7y ago
    Empathy is overrated and is actually part of the problem sometimes. People are wired to feel empathy for members of their ingroup and to not feel empathy for members of their outgroup, so relying too much on empathy just creates a collection of divided subcultures, which is what the Internet really looks like to me.
    - throwaway35784 7y ago
      I feel empathy for even nonhuman animals, so yes I agree sometimes it can be a problem. Especially when empathizing with psychopaths and sociopaths. They have the worst feelings of all.
      - philwelch 7y ago
        Hitler famously felt very strong empathy for nonhuman animals.
- philwelch 7y ago
  I think part of that might be a transition between a culture where everybody tried to fit in and a culture where everybody tries to stand out.
friendlybus 7y ago
There is a concept of healthy narcissism in therapeutic circles. Everybody is somewhat narcissistic and making sure it is not a negative aspect of one's life is the key. The pop psych model is an easy label. The whole thing is a descriptive generality, defining someone's character is difficult.
proverbialbunny 7y ago
The description in the article of what narcissism is isn't great. The article doesn't even describe the difference between NPD (narcissistic personality disorder) and narcissism in philosophy. Narcissism (NPD) is telling a story to get other people to do what they want. Usually the story they tell is a lie or some form of twisting the truth. For example imagine you ask a coworker how they're doing and they say something like, "Not so good. I just finished a meeting and Bob treated me horribly. He kept talking over me and I felt like I couldn't get my ideas out." The story seems normal enough. The average person doesn't keep track of what they've heard that is verified and unverified. Say, in this case, the narcissist is not telling the truth about Bob. They're spreading gossip with the goal of getting Bob fired months later, in this slow and subtle way. Worst of all, Bob has no idea. There hasn't been any arguments or any problems between them. There is a high chance he will not know what has happened until it is already over. What does the person with NPD want here? Maybe a promotion or something else that they are likely to get if Bob leaves the company. Narcissists also use positive emotions when and where possible to aid their stories. Positive roles like being a loved one, a good friend, or a leader are the kinds of roles people question the least. This allows their stories to go unverified, giving them everything they want. There is a line that connects NPD and ASPD (sociopath/psychopath). Many who suffer from NPD and ASPD have a blend of traits between the two. What both narcissists and sociopaths want is selfish, in that they're okay harming others to get what they want, as long as they can do it in a way that isn't obvious. People with ASPD tend to be forward and obvious and get caught. People with NPD tend to be more sly and subtle and rarely get caught. I'm not one to usually bring politics up, but Trump is a great example of NPD, because of how obvious he is. If you watch what he says with the lens of looking for twisted truth or outright lies, and look for his motivation guessing what he wants, it becomes quite a bit easier to understand not only where he is coming from but how he works and what his tricks are.

When I read a description of a narcissist, I think "that sounds like the description of an average human to me".

by mjfl 7y ago

When I read a description of a narcissist, I think "that sounds like the description of an average human to me".

jdc 7y ago

Well it is a tragically common trait these days.

jacquesm 7y ago
Instagram and Facebook really fuel that trend.
- throwaway35784 7y ago
  Tragically all the narcissists are on there with their selfies hopelessly looking for love from all the other narcissists psychologically unable to give it.

bilbo0s 7y ago

There was a time it was not so common a trait. I distinctly remember the 70's and 80's when there were a large number of people who I would say "lacked confidence" so to speak. Kind of unsure of themselves, shy and retiring types. As we moved into the 21st century, it does seem like lack of confidence has gone away. People are almost "over confident" sometimes.

cj 7y ago
> People are almost "over confident" sometimes. Is it possible that people are by and large the same, but that social media simply makes it very easy for people lacking confidence to come across as more confident than they really are?
- ashelmire 7y ago
  I suspect it's more that the very confident have their messages amplified on social media. Most people I encounter in person are not like that.
throwaway35784 7y ago
Ironically the Internet was founded by those trying to escape the narcs and now it's overrun by them too. Empaths running for the hills.
- philwelch 7y ago
  Empathy is overrated and is actually part of the problem sometimes. People are wired to feel empathy for members of their ingroup and to not feel empathy for members of their outgroup, so relying too much on empathy just creates a collection of divided subcultures, which is what the Internet really looks like to me.
  - throwaway35784 7y ago
    I feel empathy for even nonhuman animals, so yes I agree sometimes it can be a problem. Especially when empathizing with psychopaths and sociopaths. They have the worst feelings of all.
    - philwelch 7y ago
      Hitler famously felt very strong empathy for nonhuman animals.
philwelch 7y ago
I think part of that might be a transition between a culture where everybody tried to fit in and a culture where everybody tries to stand out.

friendlybus 7y ago

There is a concept of healthy narcissism in therapeutic circles. Everybody is somewhat narcissistic and making sure it is not a negative aspect of one's life is the key. The pop psych model is an easy label. The whole thing is a descriptive generality, defining someone's character is difficult.

proverbialbunny 7y ago

The description in the article of what narcissism is isn't great. The article doesn't even describe the difference between NPD (narcissistic personality disorder) and narcissism in philosophy. Narcissism (NPD) is telling a story to get other people to do what they want. Usually the story they tell is a lie or some form of twisting the truth. For example imagine you ask a coworker how they're doing and they say something like, "Not so good. I just finished a meeting and Bob treated me horribly. He kept talking over me and I felt like I couldn't get my ideas out." The story seems normal enough. The average person doesn't keep track of what they've heard that is verified and unverified. Say, in this case, the narcissist is not telling the truth about Bob. They're spreading gossip with the goal of getting Bob fired months later, in this slow and subtle way. Worst of all, Bob has no idea. There hasn't been any arguments or any problems between them. There is a high chance he will not know what has happened until it is already over. What does the person with NPD want here? Maybe a promotion or something else that they are likely to get if Bob leaves the company. Narcissists also use positive emotions when and where possible to aid their stories. Positive roles like being a loved one, a good friend, or a leader are the kinds of roles people question the least. This allows their stories to go unverified, giving them everything they want. There is a line that connects NPD and ASPD (sociopath/psychopath). Many who suffer from NPD and ASPD have a blend of traits between the two. What both narcissists and sociopaths want is selfish, in that they're okay harming others to get what they want, as long as they can do it in a way that isn't obvious. People with ASPD tend to be forward and obvious and get caught. People with NPD tend to be more sly and subtle and rarely get caught. I'm not one to usually bring politics up, but Trump is a great example of NPD, because of how obvious he is. If you watch what he says with the lens of looking for twisted truth or outright lies, and look for his motivation guessing what he wants, it becomes quite a bit easier to understand not only where he is coming from but how he works and what his tricks are.