4 ms·

This is a fantastic idea. There are a few elements to it that one could use to dispute its value — for example, Netflix has no way of knowing what level of ser

This is a fantastic idea. There are a few elements to it that one could use to dispute its value — for example, Netflix has no way of knowing what level of service a customer has paid for. They also don't appear to differentiate between different types of service from a single ISP (e.g., they lump together AT&T's old ADSL customers in with ADSL2/U-Verse, and, presumably Verizon's DSL with FiOS). I would hope that they are also filtering for sessions where a higher bitrate is requested, which Netflix's Silverlight app doesn't do unless the window/screen is large enough to benefit from the extra resolution. Of course, one could argue that those differentiators don't ultimately matter, and that if its customers are opting for older or slower service levels, that can tell you something about the ISP's pricing competitiveness.

Nrsolis 16y ago
With respect to the service tiers of the various networks, a much more useful graph would include the mean, median, and standard deviation of the observed throughput. It should then be really easy to determine if DSL vs. FiOS is responsible for the skew towards cable companies presented in these graphs.
techsupporter 16y ago
"they lump together AT&T's old ADSL customers in with ADSL2/U-Verse, and, presumably Verizon's DSL with FiOS" I was wondering why both AT&T and Verizon scored lower on the graph than I expected, though it's a pleasant surprise to see my local cable operator (Charter) parked at the top should I ever need to switch. Perhaps Netflix can't easily separate the two? I know the hostname attached to the IP I get from Verizon reveals that I'm using FiOS, but the IP address itself seems to be assigned out of the same blocks that Verizon DSL customers use. I suspect Netflix isn't--at least for an external graph like this--putting in the computing resources needed to reverse look-up all the connecting IPs and parsing them for the individual provider offerings.
TomOfTTB 16y ago
I'm sorry but I don't see how this is a fantastic idea at all. First, this is next to useless from a consumer perspective. Because anyone whose actually tested a single provider can tell you speeds vary by geography. Time Warner might be middle of the pack overall but the fastest in your particular area. Second, they're really p#ss#ng off the ISPs here. If you want faster bandwidth out of the ISPs its better to privately talk to them than publicly embarrass them. Finally this reinforces the reputation Netflix is already getting among content producers which is the company doesn't play well with others. There's a reason why the head of HBO and Time Warner are taking hard lines against Netflix. Bottom line: Netflix is part of a content delivering ecosystem. If they offend every other part of that ecosystem it will be much harder for them to survive in the future
- elq 16y ago
  > There's a reason why the head of HBO and Time Warner are taking hard lines against Netflix A gift from my employer - http://lh4.ggpht.com/_kt8r19d1Kpw/TUCXRpFxEjI/AAAAAAAAA_Y/t_SA3O7wSgA/s800/IMG_20110126_134225.jpg http://lh4.ggpht.com/_kt8r19d1Kpw/TUCXRpFxEjI/AAAAAAAAA_Y/t_... (context - http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/13/business/media/13bewkes.html http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/13/business/media/13bewkes.ht...) And Bewkes is probably a bit more pissed about http://www.google.com/finance?chdnp=1&chdd=1&chds=1&chdv=1&chvs=maximized&chdeh=0&chfdeh=0&chdet=1296162000000&chddm=493051&chls=IntervalBasedLine&cmpto=NYSE:TWX&cmptdms=0&q=NASDAQ:NFLX&ntsp=0 http://www.google.com/finance?chdnp=1&chdd=1&chds=1&...
- thetrumanshow 16y ago
  I respectfully disagree. This is a fantastic move by NetFlix. NetFlix knows that the ISPs are already pissed at them and are moving to throttle them, so they fire back by showing consumers which of the ISPs are a better fit for their NetFlix viewing habits. NetFlix is flexing its muscle a bit here to show it can redirect customers to choose different ISPs and affect their bottom line.
  - draebek 16y ago
    > NetFlix is flexing its muscle a bit here to show it can redirect customers to choose different ISPs and affect their bottom line. I, too, like that Netflix is giving out this kind of information, but let's remember that in the USA many people have two or even just one choice. I have my choice of Comcast cable or AT&T DSL for broadband. That's it. And I'm not 100% sure that AT&T DSL would actually work in my building, and it's top speed is 6Mb/s compared to Comcast's 12Mb/s (or maybe 15Mb/s, I forget). Plus, AT&T: the only company I can think of with worse customer service than Comcast. So while I like that they're giving out this information I'm not sure it's going to be a good idea to piss off ISPs with this near monopoly situation in many parts of the USA.
    - thetrumanshow 16y ago
      A BIG fight is brewing, and NetFlix is summoning allies to its cause. If they don't, the ISPs will eventually have their way anyway. So, while I agree, I think NetFlix has almost no choice but to go down this path.
jauer 16y ago
"Netflix has no way of knowing what level of service a customer has paid for" I think that partially explains the clump of RBOCs in the 1,800 - 2,000 band. I manage a network that has several hundred subscribers wholesaled off of AT&T's legacy DSL network in the midwest. Many of our users can't get speeds beyond that range because of line errors. The copper plant is degrading. Those RBOCs primarily use ADSL. Their speeds will probably degrade until someone overbuilds with FTTH.
ShabbyDoo 16y ago
Yes. The only thing I found useful about this graph was the variability over time by provider. I'm a (surprisingly) happy WindStream customer, and I routinely get the 6Mbit down that I pay for. If I wanted to pay more, I could get 12Mbit, but I really don't need it. Conversely, if I wanted to save money, I could buy only 1.5Mbit down. If many Windstream customers only pay for 1.5Mbit but still stream Netflix, then the Windstream average will look crappy even though Windstream is delivering as promised. I wonder how Netflix could reliably collect up/down SLAs and report metrics compared to them.

Nrsolis 16y ago

With respect to the service tiers of the various networks, a much more useful graph would include the mean, median, and standard deviation of the observed throughput. It should then be really easy to determine if DSL vs. FiOS is responsible for the skew towards cable companies presented in these graphs.

techsupporter 16y ago

"they lump together AT&T's old ADSL customers in with ADSL2/U-Verse, and, presumably Verizon's DSL with FiOS" I was wondering why both AT&T and Verizon scored lower on the graph than I expected, though it's a pleasant surprise to see my local cable operator (Charter) parked at the top should I ever need to switch. Perhaps Netflix can't easily separate the two? I know the hostname attached to the IP I get from Verizon reveals that I'm using FiOS, but the IP address itself seems to be assigned out of the same blocks that Verizon DSL customers use. I suspect Netflix isn't--at least for an external graph like this--putting in the computing resources needed to reverse look-up all the connecting IPs and parsing them for the individual provider offerings.

TomOfTTB 16y ago

I'm sorry but I don't see how this is a fantastic idea at all. First, this is next to useless from a consumer perspective. Because anyone whose actually tested a single provider can tell you speeds vary by geography. Time Warner might be middle of the pack overall but the fastest in your particular area. Second, they're really p#ss#ng off the ISPs here. If you want faster bandwidth out of the ISPs its better to privately talk to them than publicly embarrass them. Finally this reinforces the reputation Netflix is already getting among content producers which is the company doesn't play well with others. There's a reason why the head of HBO and Time Warner are taking hard lines against Netflix. Bottom line: Netflix is part of a content delivering ecosystem. If they offend every other part of that ecosystem it will be much harder for them to survive in the future

elq 16y ago
> There's a reason why the head of HBO and Time Warner are taking hard lines against Netflix A gift from my employer - http://lh4.ggpht.com/_kt8r19d1Kpw/TUCXRpFxEjI/AAAAAAAAA_Y/t_SA3O7wSgA/s800/IMG_20110126_134225.jpg http://lh4.ggpht.com/_kt8r19d1Kpw/TUCXRpFxEjI/AAAAAAAAA_Y/t_... (context - http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/13/business/media/13bewkes.html http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/13/business/media/13bewkes.ht...) And Bewkes is probably a bit more pissed about http://www.google.com/finance?chdnp=1&chdd=1&chds=1&chdv=1&chvs=maximized&chdeh=0&chfdeh=0&chdet=1296162000000&chddm=493051&chls=IntervalBasedLine&cmpto=NYSE:TWX&cmptdms=0&q=NASDAQ:NFLX&ntsp=0 http://www.google.com/finance?chdnp=1&chdd=1&chds=1&...
thetrumanshow 16y ago
I respectfully disagree. This is a fantastic move by NetFlix. NetFlix knows that the ISPs are already pissed at them and are moving to throttle them, so they fire back by showing consumers which of the ISPs are a better fit for their NetFlix viewing habits. NetFlix is flexing its muscle a bit here to show it can redirect customers to choose different ISPs and affect their bottom line.
- draebek 16y ago
  > NetFlix is flexing its muscle a bit here to show it can redirect customers to choose different ISPs and affect their bottom line. I, too, like that Netflix is giving out this kind of information, but let's remember that in the USA many people have two or even just one choice. I have my choice of Comcast cable or AT&T DSL for broadband. That's it. And I'm not 100% sure that AT&T DSL would actually work in my building, and it's top speed is 6Mb/s compared to Comcast's 12Mb/s (or maybe 15Mb/s, I forget). Plus, AT&T: the only company I can think of with worse customer service than Comcast. So while I like that they're giving out this information I'm not sure it's going to be a good idea to piss off ISPs with this near monopoly situation in many parts of the USA.
  - thetrumanshow 16y ago
    A BIG fight is brewing, and NetFlix is summoning allies to its cause. If they don't, the ISPs will eventually have their way anyway. So, while I agree, I think NetFlix has almost no choice but to go down this path.

jauer 16y ago

"Netflix has no way of knowing what level of service a customer has paid for" I think that partially explains the clump of RBOCs in the 1,800 - 2,000 band. I manage a network that has several hundred subscribers wholesaled off of AT&T's legacy DSL network in the midwest. Many of our users can't get speeds beyond that range because of line errors. The copper plant is degrading. Those RBOCs primarily use ADSL. Their speeds will probably degrade until someone overbuilds with FTTH.

ShabbyDoo 16y ago

Yes. The only thing I found useful about this graph was the variability over time by provider. I'm a (surprisingly) happy WindStream customer, and I routinely get the 6Mbit down that I pay for. If I wanted to pay more, I could get 12Mbit, but I really don't need it. Conversely, if I wanted to save money, I could buy only 1.5Mbit down. If many Windstream customers only pay for 1.5Mbit but still stream Netflix, then the Windstream average will look crappy even though Windstream is delivering as promised. I wonder how Netflix could reliably collect up/down SLAs and report metrics compared to them.