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In Japan, sober passengers get penalised if a driver is over the alcohol limit. The limit is not high (BrAC 0.15 mg/L -equivalent to 0.03%) to start with. The

In Japan, sober passengers get penalised if a driver is over the alcohol limit. The limit is not high (BrAC 0.15 mg/L -equivalent to 0.03%) to start with. The good thing about this policy (as a disincentive to drunk-driving) is it is designed to socialise responsibility and blame: while a passenger can reasonably claim not to know how drunk the driver was, it makes no difference to the fine. One could extend this idea to speed limits, perhaps. Or maybe: multiply the driver's fine relative to the number of passengers aboard, so as to diminish the guy-showing-off-to-his-mates/ girlfriend effect. If you're risking lives other than your own, pay more.

usaphp 7y ago
You have a choice when getting into a car with a drunk driver. You don’t have a choice to not let a driver speed up when you are already in a car.
- muzani 7y ago
  I think the idea here is that a drunk driver might not mind risking a fine for himself, but thinks twice about risking a fine for his passenger too.
andrei_says_ 7y ago
And multiply by a wealth coefficient like they do in Finland. Because if a fine is the equivalent $0.00000450 then it’s not much of a motivation.
- belltaco 7y ago
  How is wealth calculated? It's kind of hard in many countries including USA, since there is no wealth tax.
  - sandworm101 7y ago
    Dead simple. Bluebook or insured value of the vehicle being driven. Speed in a semi-truck, or lambo, expect to pay more than the guy delivering pizzas in a civic.
    - nexuist 7y ago
      ...So the rich people all buy cheap cars instead and keep their lambos at home. How does this solve the problem?
  - andrei_says_ 7y ago
    It’s a very good question which I presume has been solved in many places. Shares in public companies, stocks, property values etc. If someone working two $8/h jobs to pay for rent and food has to pay $450 that has serious repercussions. If someone who owns a rental property for example is to experience an incentive of a similar size, then the incentive ought to be proportional maybe to 2-3% of the value of the property? If we’re OK with poor people’s lives being ruined by a speeding ticket then maybe we could be OK with a millionaire having to sell some shares or even property to cover a similar offense. And, the police would get their funding quotas faster ;) Of course legislation like this is unlikely to cross the Gilens/Page threshold. here’s a summary of their Princeton study finding that US “democracy” works only when serving the oligarchy: https://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/princeton-experts-say-us-no-longer-democracy https://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/princeton-experts-say...
laurieg 7y ago
This seems to work well for social drinking situations but if slam a couple of whiskeys and then come pick you up one morning you're committing a crime and have no reasonable way to know about it.

usaphp 7y ago

You have a choice when getting into a car with a drunk driver. You don’t have a choice to not let a driver speed up when you are already in a car.

muzani 7y ago
I think the idea here is that a drunk driver might not mind risking a fine for himself, but thinks twice about risking a fine for his passenger too.

andrei_says_ 7y ago

And multiply by a wealth coefficient like they do in Finland. Because if a fine is the equivalent $0.00000450 then it’s not much of a motivation.

belltaco 7y ago
How is wealth calculated? It's kind of hard in many countries including USA, since there is no wealth tax.
- sandworm101 7y ago
  Dead simple. Bluebook or insured value of the vehicle being driven. Speed in a semi-truck, or lambo, expect to pay more than the guy delivering pizzas in a civic.
  - nexuist 7y ago
    ...So the rich people all buy cheap cars instead and keep their lambos at home. How does this solve the problem?
- andrei_says_ 7y ago
  It’s a very good question which I presume has been solved in many places. Shares in public companies, stocks, property values etc. If someone working two $8/h jobs to pay for rent and food has to pay $450 that has serious repercussions. If someone who owns a rental property for example is to experience an incentive of a similar size, then the incentive ought to be proportional maybe to 2-3% of the value of the property? If we’re OK with poor people’s lives being ruined by a speeding ticket then maybe we could be OK with a millionaire having to sell some shares or even property to cover a similar offense. And, the police would get their funding quotas faster ;) Of course legislation like this is unlikely to cross the Gilens/Page threshold. here’s a summary of their Princeton study finding that US “democracy” works only when serving the oligarchy: https://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/princeton-experts-say-us-no-longer-democracy https://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/princeton-experts-say...

laurieg 7y ago

This seems to work well for social drinking situations but if slam a couple of whiskeys and then come pick you up one morning you're committing a crime and have no reasonable way to know about it.