9 ms·

What problem was Charles Max Wood going to cause at KubeCon?

ElijahLynn 7y ago
Wearing a MAGA hat anywhere in public is threatening to a significant portion of people. It is saying to everyone in the vicinity, I agree with all the hate that Trump has put out there. It is calling everyone a "loser" when you don't agree with them. It is giving schoolyard bully nicknames to anyone you don't like. It is just straight up toxic. And it is likely more threatening than average at a highly open source event, where many people dedicate their lives for deep values and human rights. If Charles Max Wood would have worn a MAGA hat at KubeCon, a lot of people would have felt very uncomfortable, including myself (not going to KubeCon this year though).
- barthvr 7y ago
  So, just ask him not to wear it at the conference ?
- TylerE 7y ago
  I prefer tha assholes walk around with giant "I'm an asshole" signs, personally.
  - preillyme 7y ago
    me too
- syshum 7y ago
  So anyone that supports Republican policies or the current elected president of the US should be banned from Linux Foundation events? Do you have be a Democrat to be a part of Open Source now //for the record I am neither Republican nor Democrat, i am Libertarian, and I voted for Gary Johnson in 2016 so don't burn me at the stake please...
  - lliamander 7y ago
    Well, I've already got the wood and gasoline...
  - gameswithgo 7y ago
    current gop behavior is pretty bad, i hesitate to associate with anyone still aligned that way if i don’t have to. it was not this way 10 years ago.
    - syshum 7y ago
      The current policies and positions of the GOP are the exact same as they were 10 years ago (slightly to the left actually) it is progressives / liberals that have moved, not the GOP
      - PantsyMcPants 7y ago
        Child separation policy was new. Building a concrete wall across the border is new. Banning Muslims is new. Refusing a president the right to nominate judges and having the senate vote on them is new. I could go on.
  - ElijahLynn 7y ago
    I didn't say that, I just said that it is threatening to others to wear that hat. If anyone wears that hat knowingly in public, they do it to agitate others, IMO.
    - syshum 7y ago
      You just said that... MAGA is support for Republican Policies. if you believe wearing a MAGA hat is "threatening" and you believe in banning people that "threaten you" then you are saying you want to bann everyone that supports Republican Policies. You can not say "I just want to bann people that wear MAGA Hats not republicans"... Republicans where MAGA Hats and Support the President, Donald Trump
    - lliamander 7y ago
- lliamander 7y ago
  I've seen plenty of people unironically wear Che Guevera T-shirts, Socialist t-shirts, etc. even at conferences. If that's not at least at little bit threatening to some people, let me introduce you to my friend who helped people escape over the Berlin wall. Whether you like it or not, plenty of people who voted for Trump are probably in attendance. Telling them that they're unequivocally not welcome is hardly going to change their minds.
- zozbot234 7y ago
  > It is saying to everyone in the vicinity, I agree with all the hate that Trump has put out there. Um, it isn't. It really isn't. Unless you 100% subscribe to that maxim "you're either with me or against me", of course. But if you actually think Trump is being hateful, you should perhaps leave open the possibility that even those who agree with his broad political stance might object to his actions in pursuing it, and perhaps some of the specifics he sometimes advocates for. That's exactly what we've been seeing from many people in the current administration who are, broadly speaking, Trump supporters.
  - ElijahLynn 7y ago
    To me, when someone wears that hat, it definitely is. It is endorsing all the hate that comes out of him. Here are 271 times Trump has used the word "loser" on Twitter alone. http://www.trumptwitterarchive.com/archive/loser http://www.trumptwitterarchive.com/archive/loser That is HATE. MAGA Hat == HATE, to me and a large percentage of others on this planet.
    - syshum 7y ago
      loser is a hate word now? Can you provide me with a list of all the words I am not allowed to say?
- PeterisP 7y ago
  As an opponent of Trump, I'd still consider it a fundamental right of anyone to openly advertise their support for a mainstream political candidate and not get banned from public venues for that. If party A doesn't like party B, then that gets settled for a ballot box, but for any public event if voting for party A, openly supporting party A, and being in party A disqualifies you from participation - well, either it's a political convention for party B or the policy is simply unacceptably wrong. I mean, there are two parties in the USA with a roughly comparable amount of supporters, with some shifting back and forth over the years. If the presence of a roughly half of population makes someone uncomfortable that's... interesting but inherently they have as much right to be there as you do. The right to swing one's fist ends at the other's nose; and the right to dislike members of an opposing party ends at the point where you kick them out from non-partisan events. IMHO a simple test would be whether you'd consider the equivalent action appropriate for someone wearing an Obama CHANGE hat back in 2008. What's good for goose is good for gander - we can hate certain policies, we can hate certain politicians, but applying that hate and exclusion to all the supporters of these politicians crosses a line that puts it right in the same ballpark as hating a major group of our (!) population because of their race or gender or religion. Active supporters of Trump are just as valid part of USA population as any other major group, like it or not. It's appropriate to try and convince them to change their opinion, but it's not appropriate to require them to change their opinion or try and exclude them from society.
  - jonbronson 7y ago
    In ordinary times, this would make sense. But we're living in extraordinary times, where the mainstream political candidate of the American Right has more in common with despot authoritarians around the world than he does with the traditionally conservative ideals of the Republican party. This issue transcends politics, and is more directly about ethics and human decency. As for the problem this poses to conferences, it's not merely academic. We know that any involvement of people from diverse backgrounds leads to a more creative environment. When a few bad actors threaten the stability and civility of that environment, conference organizers have not only a moral duty, but a professional obligation to address the situation. Whether or not political extremists are bothered by that is frankly irrelevant.
- zarkov99 7y ago
  It is not threatening at all, unless you consider the existence of people who hold different political views threatening. In which you case you are the one who should not be out in public not everybody else.
  - jonbronson 7y ago
    It's a bit disingenuous to suggest that devaluing women, minorities, and foreigners is merely a difference in political views. It's an outright abandonment of human decency that is central to the professional ethics of western society and more.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - manigandham 7y ago
      That's not a mainstream political view for anyone today.
    - interfixus 7y ago
      Western society? I wonder which venues such implicit denigration of non-eurocentric culture could get you banned from.
  - ElijahLynn 7y ago
    It IS threatening to ME. That is my feeling. You can't take that feeling away from anyone. It isn't a different political view. It is human decency. Wearing that hat endorses every hateful thing Trump has ever said. It is a scorn on the human race.
    - zarkov99 7y ago
      Then perhaps you should not go. I am not threatened, nor do I think any one else is really threatened at all, in any reasonable sense anyway. Why should your discomfort trump mine and the MAGA hat wearers desire to interact in this venue?
- yourbandsucks 7y ago
  You seem to have your facts confused. Wood wasn't publicly planning to wear a provocative hat to a conference or anything like that.
  - ElijahLynn 7y ago
    No, because I didn't state that he was planning on wearing it to the conference, I stated an "if": "If Charles Max Wood would have worn a MAGA hat at KubeCon". That isn't a fact. But if he would do it on Twitter, what is to say he wouldn't feel empowered to do it at KubeCon?
    - yourbandsucks 7y ago
      If he would have? We should kick this guy out of the Linux Foundation because he hypothetically might disagree with us at a conference?
    - umvi 7y ago
      > But if he would do it on Twitter, what is to say he wouldn't feel empowered to do it at KubeCon? Because KubeCon isn't held at a Trump Hotel? The only reason he is wearing a MAGA hat on Twitter is to pose in front of a Trump Hotel in NYC. He says right in the Twitter post he didn't vote for Trump and that the hat is a prop.
- umvi 7y ago
  So does wearing an Obama shirt mean you agree with everything Obama did including drone strikes? So in essence, an Obama bumper sticker is a statement that you agree with murder?
pera 7y ago
I'm not stating a personal opinion here but, for many people wearing a MAGA hat is equivalent to supporting this kind of speech: “When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best, they’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.” - Donald Trump, 2015 If for instance you were from Mexico, it could be discouraging to attend the presentation of someone who believes that your ethnicity implies you are, most likely, a criminal. I personally wouldn't ask a question to someone who believes I am a rapist based on my ethnicity. Would you?
- ghostpepper 7y ago
  Didn't he say "their rapists" not "they’re rapists"? Subtle difference but it does significantly shrink the group being called rapists from the entire country of Mexico to only immigrants.
  - masonic 7y ago
    "there are rapists"
  - PantsyMcPants 7y ago
    Weirdest bit of apologetics ever. Making small tactical adjustments that reduces the spread of statements target, but has little effect on its meaning or effect.
  - darkforest1336 7y ago
    Not even immigrants, just the illegal ones.
- lliamander 7y ago
  And yet, for a Republican, he has record high support among the Hispanic population.
  - pera 7y ago
joshberkus 7y ago
Charles Woods was denied a pass for Kubecon on the basis of his podcasted support, at length, for Somnez's attacks on women in tech. It had absolutely nothing to do with MAGA hats.
- lliamander 7y ago
  Nevermind the fact that the women Somnez attacked were themselves harassing another woman in tech - even after she apologized (what her alleged offense was I'm not clear on). These women, as can be seen from their histories, are not new to this kind of behavior, and indeed they have explicitly said that they see civility and discourse as something invented "by white men, for white men" as a means of oppression. Somnez may have been excessive in his behavior, but he was doing it to draw fire away from an innocent individual.

Wearing a MAGA hat anywhere in public is threatening to a significant portion of people. It is saying to everyone in the vicinity, I agree with all the hate that Trump has put out there. It is calling everyone a "loser" when you don't agree with them. It is giving schoolyard bully nicknames to anyone you don't like. It is just straight up toxic. And it is likely more threatening than average at a highly open source event, where many people dedicate their lives for deep values and human rights. If Charles Max Wood would have worn a MAGA hat at KubeCon, a lot of people would have felt very uncomfortable, including myself (not going to KubeCon this year though).

barthvr 7y ago
So, just ask him not to wear it at the conference ?
TylerE 7y ago
I prefer tha assholes walk around with giant "I'm an asshole" signs, personally.
- preillyme 7y ago
  me too
syshum 7y ago
So anyone that supports Republican policies or the current elected president of the US should be banned from Linux Foundation events? Do you have be a Democrat to be a part of Open Source now //for the record I am neither Republican nor Democrat, i am Libertarian, and I voted for Gary Johnson in 2016 so don't burn me at the stake please...
- lliamander 7y ago
  Well, I've already got the wood and gasoline...
- gameswithgo 7y ago
  current gop behavior is pretty bad, i hesitate to associate with anyone still aligned that way if i don’t have to. it was not this way 10 years ago.
  - syshum 7y ago
    The current policies and positions of the GOP are the exact same as they were 10 years ago (slightly to the left actually) it is progressives / liberals that have moved, not the GOP
    - PantsyMcPants 7y ago
      Child separation policy was new. Building a concrete wall across the border is new. Banning Muslims is new. Refusing a president the right to nominate judges and having the senate vote on them is new. I could go on.
- ElijahLynn 7y ago
  I didn't say that, I just said that it is threatening to others to wear that hat. If anyone wears that hat knowingly in public, they do it to agitate others, IMO.
  - syshum 7y ago
    You just said that... MAGA is support for Republican Policies. if you believe wearing a MAGA hat is "threatening" and you believe in banning people that "threaten you" then you are saying you want to bann everyone that supports Republican Policies. You can not say "I just want to bann people that wear MAGA Hats not republicans"... Republicans where MAGA Hats and Support the President, Donald Trump
  - lliamander 7y ago
lliamander 7y ago
I've seen plenty of people unironically wear Che Guevera T-shirts, Socialist t-shirts, etc. even at conferences. If that's not at least at little bit threatening to some people, let me introduce you to my friend who helped people escape over the Berlin wall. Whether you like it or not, plenty of people who voted for Trump are probably in attendance. Telling them that they're unequivocally not welcome is hardly going to change their minds.
zozbot234 7y ago
> It is saying to everyone in the vicinity, I agree with all the hate that Trump has put out there. Um, it isn't. It really isn't. Unless you 100% subscribe to that maxim "you're either with me or against me", of course. But if you actually think Trump is being hateful, you should perhaps leave open the possibility that even those who agree with his broad political stance might object to his actions in pursuing it, and perhaps some of the specifics he sometimes advocates for. That's exactly what we've been seeing from many people in the current administration who are, broadly speaking, Trump supporters.
- ElijahLynn 7y ago
  To me, when someone wears that hat, it definitely is. It is endorsing all the hate that comes out of him. Here are 271 times Trump has used the word "loser" on Twitter alone. http://www.trumptwitterarchive.com/archive/loser http://www.trumptwitterarchive.com/archive/loser That is HATE. MAGA Hat == HATE, to me and a large percentage of others on this planet.
  - syshum 7y ago
    loser is a hate word now? Can you provide me with a list of all the words I am not allowed to say?
PeterisP 7y ago
As an opponent of Trump, I'd still consider it a fundamental right of anyone to openly advertise their support for a mainstream political candidate and not get banned from public venues for that. If party A doesn't like party B, then that gets settled for a ballot box, but for any public event if voting for party A, openly supporting party A, and being in party A disqualifies you from participation - well, either it's a political convention for party B or the policy is simply unacceptably wrong. I mean, there are two parties in the USA with a roughly comparable amount of supporters, with some shifting back and forth over the years. If the presence of a roughly half of population makes someone uncomfortable that's... interesting but inherently they have as much right to be there as you do. The right to swing one's fist ends at the other's nose; and the right to dislike members of an opposing party ends at the point where you kick them out from non-partisan events. IMHO a simple test would be whether you'd consider the equivalent action appropriate for someone wearing an Obama CHANGE hat back in 2008. What's good for goose is good for gander - we can hate certain policies, we can hate certain politicians, but applying that hate and exclusion to all the supporters of these politicians crosses a line that puts it right in the same ballpark as hating a major group of our (!) population because of their race or gender or religion. Active supporters of Trump are just as valid part of USA population as any other major group, like it or not. It's appropriate to try and convince them to change their opinion, but it's not appropriate to require them to change their opinion or try and exclude them from society.
- jonbronson 7y ago
  In ordinary times, this would make sense. But we're living in extraordinary times, where the mainstream political candidate of the American Right has more in common with despot authoritarians around the world than he does with the traditionally conservative ideals of the Republican party. This issue transcends politics, and is more directly about ethics and human decency. As for the problem this poses to conferences, it's not merely academic. We know that any involvement of people from diverse backgrounds leads to a more creative environment. When a few bad actors threaten the stability and civility of that environment, conference organizers have not only a moral duty, but a professional obligation to address the situation. Whether or not political extremists are bothered by that is frankly irrelevant.
zarkov99 7y ago
It is not threatening at all, unless you consider the existence of people who hold different political views threatening. In which you case you are the one who should not be out in public not everybody else.
- jonbronson 7y ago
  It's a bit disingenuous to suggest that devaluing women, minorities, and foreigners is merely a difference in political views. It's an outright abandonment of human decency that is central to the professional ethics of western society and more.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - manigandham 7y ago
    That's not a mainstream political view for anyone today.
  - interfixus 7y ago
    Western society? I wonder which venues such implicit denigration of non-eurocentric culture could get you banned from.
- ElijahLynn 7y ago
  It IS threatening to ME. That is my feeling. You can't take that feeling away from anyone. It isn't a different political view. It is human decency. Wearing that hat endorses every hateful thing Trump has ever said. It is a scorn on the human race.
  - zarkov99 7y ago
    Then perhaps you should not go. I am not threatened, nor do I think any one else is really threatened at all, in any reasonable sense anyway. Why should your discomfort trump mine and the MAGA hat wearers desire to interact in this venue?
yourbandsucks 7y ago
You seem to have your facts confused. Wood wasn't publicly planning to wear a provocative hat to a conference or anything like that.
- ElijahLynn 7y ago
  No, because I didn't state that he was planning on wearing it to the conference, I stated an "if": "If Charles Max Wood would have worn a MAGA hat at KubeCon". That isn't a fact. But if he would do it on Twitter, what is to say he wouldn't feel empowered to do it at KubeCon?
  - yourbandsucks 7y ago
    If he would have? We should kick this guy out of the Linux Foundation because he hypothetically might disagree with us at a conference?
  - umvi 7y ago
    > But if he would do it on Twitter, what is to say he wouldn't feel empowered to do it at KubeCon? Because KubeCon isn't held at a Trump Hotel? The only reason he is wearing a MAGA hat on Twitter is to pose in front of a Trump Hotel in NYC. He says right in the Twitter post he didn't vote for Trump and that the hat is a prop.
umvi 7y ago
So does wearing an Obama shirt mean you agree with everything Obama did including drone strikes? So in essence, an Obama bumper sticker is a statement that you agree with murder?

pera 7y ago

I'm not stating a personal opinion here but, for many people wearing a MAGA hat is equivalent to supporting this kind of speech: “When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best, they’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.” - Donald Trump, 2015 If for instance you were from Mexico, it could be discouraging to attend the presentation of someone who believes that your ethnicity implies you are, most likely, a criminal. I personally wouldn't ask a question to someone who believes I am a rapist based on my ethnicity. Would you?

ghostpepper 7y ago
Didn't he say "their rapists" not "they’re rapists"? Subtle difference but it does significantly shrink the group being called rapists from the entire country of Mexico to only immigrants.
- masonic 7y ago
  "there are rapists"
- PantsyMcPants 7y ago
  Weirdest bit of apologetics ever. Making small tactical adjustments that reduces the spread of statements target, but has little effect on its meaning or effect.
- darkforest1336 7y ago
  Not even immigrants, just the illegal ones.
lliamander 7y ago
And yet, for a Republican, he has record high support among the Hispanic population.
- pera 7y ago

joshberkus 7y ago

Charles Woods was denied a pass for Kubecon on the basis of his podcasted support, at length, for Somnez's attacks on women in tech. It had absolutely nothing to do with MAGA hats.

lliamander 7y ago
Nevermind the fact that the women Somnez attacked were themselves harassing another woman in tech - even after she apologized (what her alleged offense was I'm not clear on). These women, as can be seen from their histories, are not new to this kind of behavior, and indeed they have explicitly said that they see civility and discourse as something invented "by white men, for white men" as a means of oppression. Somnez may have been excessive in his behavior, but he was doing it to draw fire away from an innocent individual.