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One of the biggest reasons Apple fans like myself remain Apple fans is precisely the ecosystem. I've no desire to leave it, and so your app allowing me to isn't

One of the biggest reasons Apple fans like myself remain Apple fans is precisely the ecosystem. I've no desire to leave it, and so your app allowing me to isn't a selling point.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
magduf 7y ago
I guess you're a big fan of monopolies, huh?
- FussyZeus 7y ago
  It amazes me that Google's managed to maintain this sense of being the underdog with almost 80% share worldwide. Apple is far from a monopoly. Hilariously far, in fact.
  - nabla9 7y ago
    Both Google and Apple have monopoly power. Pure monopoly means single supplier, but companies having monopoly power where they have the ability to increasingly behave independently of competitive pressures is more common. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lerner_index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lerner_index Apple should be forced to stop these anticompetitive practices.
    - svachalek 7y ago
      Just to clarify, you are saying Apple and Google are a co-monopoly because there is no third choice, or what? The link to Lerner index says it's pretty much impossible to actually calculate so I don't see where that's going.
    - mrkstu 7y ago
      When your differentiation is in your ecosystem how is this action independent of competitive pressure? Their customers are end users and the App Store is one (and how they've run it) of their best selling points. Your line of thought only works if the developers are the customer- they are not in Apple's case.
      - nabla9 7y ago
        It's not just my personal line of thought. Your line of thought is the narrow "Chicago School" thinking Robert Bork in the US in the 90s where the sole focus is on the benefits to consumers and overall efficiency.
  - marvindanig 7y ago
    An instance, but in no way covering the entire picture. One of the reasons why Google Chrome enjoys its monopoly is because Apple does a terrible job with its browser Safari. Terrible. I mean it's a train-wreck! Since iOS 10 or probably little later they have done nothing but destroy how the web apis are supposed to function, abusing every single accessibility guideline into something that is at best a line of defense to promote their app store. I hesitantly moved away from iPhone X to Android Pixel last month.
    - scarface74 7y ago
      Or could it be that the reason Chrome “enjoys” a monopoly is because Apple doesn’t care about “winning” the browser war? Why should it? That was last decades battle. Not even MS cares about the browser enough anymore to invest in its own engine.
      - FussyZeus 7y ago
        This is the difference between companies trying to sell products and companies trying to sell attention. Apple doesn't benefit at all from people using Safari, because Safari is not a surveillance tool. Therefore, "marketing" Safari is at best, an afterthought. Chrome on the other hand... well, it's Google, one of the largest purveyors of advertising. If you don't think Chrome is watching you, I've got a bridge to sell you.
      - hesarenu 7y ago
        If they didn't care then we would have alternative rendering engine along with safari. They know that allowing competition is a threat to their business model.
        scarface74 7y ago
        Since the submission is about MacOS and Electron....
        hesarenu 7y ago
- zachwood 7y ago
  That's not what a monopoly is.
- mikestew 7y ago
  That is about the worst faith interpretation of parent's comment I would come up with, even if I paid a consultant.
- baddox 7y ago
  Having a favorite competitor in an industry is not that same thing as being a big fan of monopolies. That doesn't make sense. Having a healthy competitive industry does not mean that every person uses products from multiple competitors.
  - magduf 7y ago
    Having a favorite competitor is fine. Having so much loyalty to that competitor, however, is cultish. What happens when you get tired of that competitor, and some other competitor is offering something better? Or your favorite becomes abusive and you want to move? By supporting that competitor so strongly, you've encouraged monopolistic behavior, and now you're going to suffer for it, because there won't be good competitors any more, or you'll have a very hard time freeing yourself and migrating to the competition.
- apeacox 7y ago
  Not a monopoly, but a walled garden.
- tomp 7y ago
  The Apple "monopoly" is the biggest driver of progress in consumer computing. Microsoft only sells adware. Google is spyware (and crapware). Linux tablets don't even exist. Apple focuses on compatibility, user experience, performance, hardware, ease of use (yet still useful for power users). Sure it's been dropping the ball a bit in the past few years, but it's still lightyears ahead of any competitor.
- scarface74 7y ago
  Once again HN posters fail to understand the definition of a monopoly.
deogeo 7y ago
Doesn't this confirm the parent's point? You like the ecosystem, so Apple makes sure it's the only one with such an ecosystem - part of which is making cross-platform apps more difficult.
- zchrykng 7y ago
  Nothing Apple is doing prevents people from writing good native apps for any of the other platforms. They are just forcing developers to meet a miniscule quality cut off to be in the App Store.
  - deogeo 7y ago
    > prevents This word is not present in the post you replied to. I said more difficult - and forbidding some cross-platform libraries certainly has that effect.

One of the biggest reasons Apple fans like myself remain Apple fans is precisely the ecosystem. I've no desire to leave it, and so your app allowing me to isn't a selling point.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

magduf 7y ago

I guess you're a big fan of monopolies, huh?

FussyZeus 7y ago
It amazes me that Google's managed to maintain this sense of being the underdog with almost 80% share worldwide. Apple is far from a monopoly. Hilariously far, in fact.
- nabla9 7y ago
  Both Google and Apple have monopoly power. Pure monopoly means single supplier, but companies having monopoly power where they have the ability to increasingly behave independently of competitive pressures is more common. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lerner_index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lerner_index Apple should be forced to stop these anticompetitive practices.
  - svachalek 7y ago
    Just to clarify, you are saying Apple and Google are a co-monopoly because there is no third choice, or what? The link to Lerner index says it's pretty much impossible to actually calculate so I don't see where that's going.
  - mrkstu 7y ago
    When your differentiation is in your ecosystem how is this action independent of competitive pressure? Their customers are end users and the App Store is one (and how they've run it) of their best selling points. Your line of thought only works if the developers are the customer- they are not in Apple's case.
    - nabla9 7y ago
      It's not just my personal line of thought. Your line of thought is the narrow "Chicago School" thinking Robert Bork in the US in the 90s where the sole focus is on the benefits to consumers and overall efficiency.
- marvindanig 7y ago
  An instance, but in no way covering the entire picture. One of the reasons why Google Chrome enjoys its monopoly is because Apple does a terrible job with its browser Safari. Terrible. I mean it's a train-wreck! Since iOS 10 or probably little later they have done nothing but destroy how the web apis are supposed to function, abusing every single accessibility guideline into something that is at best a line of defense to promote their app store. I hesitantly moved away from iPhone X to Android Pixel last month.
  - scarface74 7y ago
    Or could it be that the reason Chrome “enjoys” a monopoly is because Apple doesn’t care about “winning” the browser war? Why should it? That was last decades battle. Not even MS cares about the browser enough anymore to invest in its own engine.
    - FussyZeus 7y ago
      This is the difference between companies trying to sell products and companies trying to sell attention. Apple doesn't benefit at all from people using Safari, because Safari is not a surveillance tool. Therefore, "marketing" Safari is at best, an afterthought. Chrome on the other hand... well, it's Google, one of the largest purveyors of advertising. If you don't think Chrome is watching you, I've got a bridge to sell you.
    - hesarenu 7y ago
      If they didn't care then we would have alternative rendering engine along with safari. They know that allowing competition is a threat to their business model.
      - scarface74 7y ago
        Since the submission is about MacOS and Electron....
        hesarenu 7y ago
zachwood 7y ago
That's not what a monopoly is.
mikestew 7y ago
That is about the worst faith interpretation of parent's comment I would come up with, even if I paid a consultant.
baddox 7y ago
Having a favorite competitor in an industry is not that same thing as being a big fan of monopolies. That doesn't make sense. Having a healthy competitive industry does not mean that every person uses products from multiple competitors.
- magduf 7y ago
  Having a favorite competitor is fine. Having so much loyalty to that competitor, however, is cultish. What happens when you get tired of that competitor, and some other competitor is offering something better? Or your favorite becomes abusive and you want to move? By supporting that competitor so strongly, you've encouraged monopolistic behavior, and now you're going to suffer for it, because there won't be good competitors any more, or you'll have a very hard time freeing yourself and migrating to the competition.
apeacox 7y ago
Not a monopoly, but a walled garden.
tomp 7y ago
The Apple "monopoly" is the biggest driver of progress in consumer computing. Microsoft only sells adware. Google is spyware (and crapware). Linux tablets don't even exist. Apple focuses on compatibility, user experience, performance, hardware, ease of use (yet still useful for power users). Sure it's been dropping the ball a bit in the past few years, but it's still lightyears ahead of any competitor.
scarface74 7y ago
Once again HN posters fail to understand the definition of a monopoly.

deogeo 7y ago

Doesn't this confirm the parent's point? You like the ecosystem, so Apple makes sure it's the only one with such an ecosystem - part of which is making cross-platform apps more difficult.

zchrykng 7y ago
Nothing Apple is doing prevents people from writing good native apps for any of the other platforms. They are just forcing developers to meet a miniscule quality cut off to be in the App Store.
- deogeo 7y ago
  > prevents This word is not present in the post you replied to. I said more difficult - and forbidding some cross-platform libraries certainly has that effect.