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You're defending the wrong kind of people. I understand the empathy for misguided youth, but these kids (and adults) knew that what they were doing was illegal.

You're defending the wrong kind of people. I understand the empathy for misguided youth, but these kids (and adults) knew that what they were doing was illegal. They were proud to engage in these acts because it was "cool" for them and their little /b/ buddies. They aren't the repressed political activists you're making them out to be. Besides, look at where they're from. They're not citizens of some third world nation with an oppressive regime in power. The laws they broke aren't unjust by any stretch of the imagination. They simply hopped onto a bandwagon with a bunch of other script kiddies and got popped for it. Don't light a candle for them. Besides, citation needed on the claim that they were just confused and wanted to enact social change but just didn't know how. That's not typical of your average Anonymous devotee. Yes, let the trolls and fake accounts people are creating solely for this thread have their way with this comment. I can spare it. And people, stop complaining about my "the law is the law" remark as though it must be some unwaivering principle of mine even in the face of unjust laws (of which none are present in this situation).

jarek 16y ago
> Yes, let the trolls and fake accounts people are creating solely for this thread have their way with this comment. I can spare it. You're losing it. You need a non-trivial amount of upvotes to downvote a comment. You're not being downvoted by fake accounts. You also haven't provided any productive suggestions for human individuals wishing to exert pressure on the decision making processes of large corporations. Should we take this as a statement that you don't believe those exist, or that you don't believe those should exist?
- coderdude 16y ago
  You're right about the down votes. That's my bad. I know of no productive means by most people's definition of productive. I always say the same thing, and that's to write your senators or the equivilant in your government. What more can be done? Certainly not attacking and defacing private property based on what you read on the Web. People who defend these acts or play the devil's advocate are only fueling the attitude that is getting these people in trouble.
  - steveklabnik 16y ago
    > What more can be done? That's the whole crux of this. If all of your legal recourses for changing the law don't work, sometimes, you have to move to illegal ones. morality != legality. This obviously requires a lot of thought, a preparation to deal with the consequences, and a serious commitment. But sometimes, it's worth it.
    - coderdude 16y ago
      The issue at hand is people damaging private organizations that chose to not do business with another private organization. Not fixing messed up or unjust laws. Not fighting a faceless government. Simply attacking a business they don't like for not doing business with an organization they do like. That's what's being defended here by the people arguing against my points.
      - steveklabnik 16y ago
        It doesn't matter if they're private organizations or governments. It's about the power relationship. I won't get into 'corporate america blah blah blah,' but I'm sure that you can see that in this role, MasterCard plays the same role the government does. There's a certain level of responsibility that comes into play when you're a gigantic credit card company that's different then when you're a mom-and-pop grocery store.

jarek 16y ago

> Yes, let the trolls and fake accounts people are creating solely for this thread have their way with this comment. I can spare it. You're losing it. You need a non-trivial amount of upvotes to downvote a comment. You're not being downvoted by fake accounts. You also haven't provided any productive suggestions for human individuals wishing to exert pressure on the decision making processes of large corporations. Should we take this as a statement that you don't believe those exist, or that you don't believe those should exist?

coderdude 16y ago
You're right about the down votes. That's my bad. I know of no productive means by most people's definition of productive. I always say the same thing, and that's to write your senators or the equivilant in your government. What more can be done? Certainly not attacking and defacing private property based on what you read on the Web. People who defend these acts or play the devil's advocate are only fueling the attitude that is getting these people in trouble.
- steveklabnik 16y ago
  > What more can be done? That's the whole crux of this. If all of your legal recourses for changing the law don't work, sometimes, you have to move to illegal ones. morality != legality. This obviously requires a lot of thought, a preparation to deal with the consequences, and a serious commitment. But sometimes, it's worth it.
  - coderdude 16y ago
    The issue at hand is people damaging private organizations that chose to not do business with another private organization. Not fixing messed up or unjust laws. Not fighting a faceless government. Simply attacking a business they don't like for not doing business with an organization they do like. That's what's being defended here by the people arguing against my points.
    - steveklabnik 16y ago
      It doesn't matter if they're private organizations or governments. It's about the power relationship. I won't get into 'corporate america blah blah blah,' but I'm sure that you can see that in this role, MasterCard plays the same role the government does. There's a certain level of responsibility that comes into play when you're a gigantic credit card company that's different then when you're a mom-and-pop grocery store.