6 ms·

How does an American get in to a program like this? Especially if, say hypothetically, they dropped out of school to work.

zachrose 16y ago
Apply?
- boredguy8 16y ago
  That's like answering, "How do I write a good book?" with "Start typing." Applying isn't the same thing as "getting in"--it's one small part. Where do you apply to? What matters in the application? Do you apply under the course or do you apply generically? Are "A-levels" a thing that matters? What are people looking for in applicants, or how do you find out?
  - geoffw8 16y ago
    Can't answer all your questions, but as a brit thats been on the brink of applying, I know that all applications go through a system called Ucas (http://www.ucas.ac.uk/ http://www.ucas.ac.uk/). I'm not sure if what we call 'Oxbridge', the big 2 (Oxford & Cambridge) handle their own applications, but I'm pretty sure Ucas is the place you need to start. I know it works (at least for UK students) on a points system, where you get points per course, and the amount is set by the grades you get. Things are different if your a 'mature' student, and if you have 'life experience'. Best thing to do is get in touch, and write a very compelling 'personal statement'. The latter being the first step to application. I'm sure theres a few guys here who can give you more (oxbridge) related advice.
    - ElliotH 16y ago
      I've gone through UCAS recently. 'UCAS Points' are only really counted for the lower-end of universities. Any university anywhere near Oxbridge in terms of reputation or entrance requirements gives offers based on A Level or International Baccalaureate or other qualifications, often followed by an interview. For example my first and second choice universities offered AAA and AAB respectively.
    - kmfrk 16y ago
      Oxford goes through UCAS. You'll want to kill yourself when using it. Only an absurdly low amount of characters (with spaces) are allowed for the personal essay, 1600, 2400, or something, so don't start preparing for a 36-page-long piece of circumspection. It's really down-putting that there is so little focus on this part, as this is what allows applicants to stand out the most.
      - abless 16y ago
        The personal essay is the part where applicants stand out the most? I sure don't hope so...I am tired of reading all these I-almost-cured-cancer-as-a-kid type essays that people in the US seem to submit for the undergraduate application. Give me a break, seriously. The single most important part of the Oxbridge application process is the interview. That's where you get to sit down with two professors that take you through challenging math problems (in case of Computer Science) and you are supposed to take them through your thinking process. Now, _that_ is where you can stand out. That's more like it.
        kmfrk 16y ago
        Sure - if you make it to the interview.
  - chrisaycock 16y ago
    A-levels are what high-school students take before applying to undergrad. It's a series of subject exams, like the SAT-II or (more appropriately) the AP; getting an "A" in A-levels is like getting a 5 on the AP. Generally speaking, any hopeful applicant to Oxbridge should have scored at least three A's. Applying to Oxbridge involves applying to one of the colleges that offers that degree programme. See this list: http://www.comlab.ox.ac.uk/admissions/ugrad/Computer_Science_tutors http://www.comlab.ox.ac.uk/admissions/ugrad/Computer_Science... I suggest you look at http://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate_courses/how_to_apply/ http://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate_courses/how_to_... If your test scores are sufficient, you'll be invited to an interview. See previous discussion: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2103161 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2103161
  - paolomaffei 16y ago
    If you ask how to write a book "start typing" is the good answer. Just F*ckin Do It, that's what it takes to be successful I promise you: get off your ass and good things will come, you may fail sometimes, but if you aren't failing often you're not trying hard enough TL;DR: Just do it, don't overplan it, you'll plan about it later
  - liuhenry 16y ago
    I applied to Oxford for the 2011 cycle (as an American student), and it is fairly different. Oxford works under the tutorial system. There's a set number of courses and subjects, and every course is specific and roughly fixed. This is basically what the U.S. system calls a major, but you don't generally study anything outside of major. Every class you take is within your course. For the course I applied to, every week there's: 10 lectures, 5 hours of practicals (like labs), and at least two tutorials (which are really small, 1-3 person discussions with your course tutor, sort of like preceptorials in the U.S.) The narrowness of your course of study is both an advantage and a disadvantage, and you usually graduate with a BA/BS in 3 years and a masters in 4 (compared to 4 years/2 years in the US) You apply to a specific course at a specific college: - When you make your application, you make it for the one course you want to study. This means that you need to know before you apply, there is no declaring of majors and it's generally pretty hard to change courses. - Oxford is made up of about 40 colleges. Most colleges offer most courses; the courses are the same at every college, but the tutors are different, and the main differences between colleges are in the culture, location, facilities, tradition + formality, size, funding, events, and number of tourists, etc. People make a big fuss about which college is better, but really its just be one that fits you the best. - You can only apply to one course at one college. Each college has a fixed number of spots, which is generally pretty small (ex. CompSci only has 2-3 at Balliol College). If you're a good candidate but the college you've applied to is full, they will pool you for the other colleges. You can also make an open application, which means you are up for any college, but this means you'll generally end up at a less popular or attractive college and there are debates as to whether it negatively impacts your application As far as the practical aspects, there's around 3 steps: 1. You make an application through UCAS (a.k.a Common App for U.K.) For Oxford and Cambridge, this is due October 15th. This includes an essay, a recommendation, and your testing scores. As an American student, you send SAT, SAT II, and AP scores instead (or equivalent). A-Levels are sort of like AP classes over here, but you are limited to typically 3 or 4. The recommendation is the same, but also talks about your suitability for your selected course. The essay is pretty short, but is more like a resume + cover letter than the Common App essay. You talk about your interests, extracurriculars, and reasons for selecting your course along with your qualifications for that course. 2. Sometime in late November/December, you'll hear back on whether or not you were shortlisted. This means that you've passed the first round of applications, and you'll be subsequently invited to interview at your college. The rate for shortlisting is typically above 60% but depends on course, and is based on your UCAS app. 3. You'll interview at your college with the tutors for your course in December. Everybody who is shortlisted for that particular course goes on the same few days. In my experience, this was like a behavioral job interview, where they ask you conceptual and practical questions and want you to describe your thought process as you solve the problem (e.g., "how would you calculate the efficiency of a fridge?"-type questions but also the "how comfortable is that chair?"-kind.) Earlier HN discussion about CS interview questions: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2103161 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2103161 4. If you do well, you'll receive an offer in late December/January which is either conditional or unconditional. Unconditional = congrats, welcome to Oxford, while conditional = we like you, but we'd like to see you get a 5 on your CompSci AP, etc. Here the rate of acceptance is much lower, but again depends on course and college, and is based heavily on your interview.
  - neild 16y ago
    That's like answering, "How do I write a good book?" with "Start typing." That's the best answer I can imagine to, "How do I write a good book?" The difference between writers and everyone else? Writers write. Want to write a book? Start typing. Want to write a good book? You won't do it on your first try, so start typing. The time for literary criticism and feedback is after you've written something to work with.
rm445 16y ago
The teaching at Oxford (and Cambridge) is stellar and more Americans should consider it as an option. Getting onto an undergraduate programme is competitive but egalitarian: you need to show you are a top performer academically and then impress at an interview. Your competition at the application stage is (very roughly speaking) the smartest kid from every British school. Very few of them will get in; every course has many more applicants than places. The Oxford University Entrance requirements, http://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate_courses/courses/courses_and_entrance_requirements/ http://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate_courses/courses... , state the following: "US qualifications: Successful candidates would typically have SAT Reasoning Test scores of at least 700 in Critical Reading, Mathematics and the Writing Paper, or ACT with a score of at least 32 out of 36. We would also expect Grade 5 in three or more Advanced Placement tests in appropriate subjects or SAT Subject Tests in three appropriate subjects at 700 or better." - I have no idea what that all means, but for comparison, every single Brit applying will have straight A-grades in their A-levels, and selection is almost entirely based on the interview (and in some cases, extra advanced examinations). So take these entrance requirements with a pinch of salt; they're necessary but not sufficient. All that said, the colleges have extremely wide lee-way in how they make their offers, so exceptional candidates with a slightly offbeat scholastic record might have a chance. Some cynics also note that foreign students may have an advantage because they bring in far more money. But all in all the academic requirements are quite high. To sum up, it's very hard to get in, but not because of prejudice or snobbery, just intense competition.
- corin_ 16y ago
  Overall a good answer, however there is something to add. For British students, once you turn twenty-one you no longer have the same strict entry requirements, instead it's more a case of proving that you're the kind of person they want than showing what exams you've passed. (Though they're likely to ask you to do some studying before applying, to demonstrate that you're willing/able to learn.) Most likely the same for international 'mature students' as well.
  - user24 16y ago
    Yeah, I applied as a mature student to an MSc program and was accepted. At the time I had a first class IT and Philosophy BA, 4-ish years commercial programming experience, and an E grade at AS level Psychology.
haliax 16y ago
I'm an American who applied and got in 4 years ago (graduated with an M.Sc. this past October). The application process is phenomenally simple, especially when compared to that for American universities. 1. You fill out an application for Oxford, containing basic biographical information and some information about the course and college you want to apply for. 2. You fill out a more detailed UCAS application, with your academic history, etc. and write a personal statement 3. You get called for interview either by phone, in person in New York/Vancouver, or in person in Oxford depending on what you can do. 4. You take an exam in your subject of choice. All of this happens between October and November, and you get a response in late December. Your choice of College is somewhat important, as it determines the life you'll have at Oxford, so research that in some depth. I went to New, and loved it, and my thesis supervisor was at Magdalen which is just lovely in every conceivable way (he's also a pretty kickass Computer Scientist). Academically, you'll want a decent SAT score, a good mix of SAT II's and AP's, and a good recommendation from a teacher in a relevant subject area.

zachrose 16y ago

Apply?

boredguy8 16y ago
That's like answering, "How do I write a good book?" with "Start typing." Applying isn't the same thing as "getting in"--it's one small part. Where do you apply to? What matters in the application? Do you apply under the course or do you apply generically? Are "A-levels" a thing that matters? What are people looking for in applicants, or how do you find out?
- geoffw8 16y ago
  Can't answer all your questions, but as a brit thats been on the brink of applying, I know that all applications go through a system called Ucas (http://www.ucas.ac.uk/ http://www.ucas.ac.uk/). I'm not sure if what we call 'Oxbridge', the big 2 (Oxford & Cambridge) handle their own applications, but I'm pretty sure Ucas is the place you need to start. I know it works (at least for UK students) on a points system, where you get points per course, and the amount is set by the grades you get. Things are different if your a 'mature' student, and if you have 'life experience'. Best thing to do is get in touch, and write a very compelling 'personal statement'. The latter being the first step to application. I'm sure theres a few guys here who can give you more (oxbridge) related advice.
  - ElliotH 16y ago
    I've gone through UCAS recently. 'UCAS Points' are only really counted for the lower-end of universities. Any university anywhere near Oxbridge in terms of reputation or entrance requirements gives offers based on A Level or International Baccalaureate or other qualifications, often followed by an interview. For example my first and second choice universities offered AAA and AAB respectively.
  - kmfrk 16y ago
    Oxford goes through UCAS. You'll want to kill yourself when using it. Only an absurdly low amount of characters (with spaces) are allowed for the personal essay, 1600, 2400, or something, so don't start preparing for a 36-page-long piece of circumspection. It's really down-putting that there is so little focus on this part, as this is what allows applicants to stand out the most.
    - abless 16y ago
      The personal essay is the part where applicants stand out the most? I sure don't hope so...I am tired of reading all these I-almost-cured-cancer-as-a-kid type essays that people in the US seem to submit for the undergraduate application. Give me a break, seriously. The single most important part of the Oxbridge application process is the interview. That's where you get to sit down with two professors that take you through challenging math problems (in case of Computer Science) and you are supposed to take them through your thinking process. Now, _that_ is where you can stand out. That's more like it.
      - kmfrk 16y ago
        Sure - if you make it to the interview.
- chrisaycock 16y ago
  A-levels are what high-school students take before applying to undergrad. It's a series of subject exams, like the SAT-II or (more appropriately) the AP; getting an "A" in A-levels is like getting a 5 on the AP. Generally speaking, any hopeful applicant to Oxbridge should have scored at least three A's. Applying to Oxbridge involves applying to one of the colleges that offers that degree programme. See this list: http://www.comlab.ox.ac.uk/admissions/ugrad/Computer_Science_tutors http://www.comlab.ox.ac.uk/admissions/ugrad/Computer_Science... I suggest you look at http://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate_courses/how_to_apply/ http://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate_courses/how_to_... If your test scores are sufficient, you'll be invited to an interview. See previous discussion: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2103161 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2103161
- paolomaffei 16y ago
  If you ask how to write a book "start typing" is the good answer. Just F*ckin Do It, that's what it takes to be successful I promise you: get off your ass and good things will come, you may fail sometimes, but if you aren't failing often you're not trying hard enough TL;DR: Just do it, don't overplan it, you'll plan about it later
- liuhenry 16y ago
  I applied to Oxford for the 2011 cycle (as an American student), and it is fairly different. Oxford works under the tutorial system. There's a set number of courses and subjects, and every course is specific and roughly fixed. This is basically what the U.S. system calls a major, but you don't generally study anything outside of major. Every class you take is within your course. For the course I applied to, every week there's: 10 lectures, 5 hours of practicals (like labs), and at least two tutorials (which are really small, 1-3 person discussions with your course tutor, sort of like preceptorials in the U.S.) The narrowness of your course of study is both an advantage and a disadvantage, and you usually graduate with a BA/BS in 3 years and a masters in 4 (compared to 4 years/2 years in the US) You apply to a specific course at a specific college: - When you make your application, you make it for the one course you want to study. This means that you need to know before you apply, there is no declaring of majors and it's generally pretty hard to change courses. - Oxford is made up of about 40 colleges. Most colleges offer most courses; the courses are the same at every college, but the tutors are different, and the main differences between colleges are in the culture, location, facilities, tradition + formality, size, funding, events, and number of tourists, etc. People make a big fuss about which college is better, but really its just be one that fits you the best. - You can only apply to one course at one college. Each college has a fixed number of spots, which is generally pretty small (ex. CompSci only has 2-3 at Balliol College). If you're a good candidate but the college you've applied to is full, they will pool you for the other colleges. You can also make an open application, which means you are up for any college, but this means you'll generally end up at a less popular or attractive college and there are debates as to whether it negatively impacts your application As far as the practical aspects, there's around 3 steps: 1. You make an application through UCAS (a.k.a Common App for U.K.) For Oxford and Cambridge, this is due October 15th. This includes an essay, a recommendation, and your testing scores. As an American student, you send SAT, SAT II, and AP scores instead (or equivalent). A-Levels are sort of like AP classes over here, but you are limited to typically 3 or 4. The recommendation is the same, but also talks about your suitability for your selected course. The essay is pretty short, but is more like a resume + cover letter than the Common App essay. You talk about your interests, extracurriculars, and reasons for selecting your course along with your qualifications for that course. 2. Sometime in late November/December, you'll hear back on whether or not you were shortlisted. This means that you've passed the first round of applications, and you'll be subsequently invited to interview at your college. The rate for shortlisting is typically above 60% but depends on course, and is based on your UCAS app. 3. You'll interview at your college with the tutors for your course in December. Everybody who is shortlisted for that particular course goes on the same few days. In my experience, this was like a behavioral job interview, where they ask you conceptual and practical questions and want you to describe your thought process as you solve the problem (e.g., "how would you calculate the efficiency of a fridge?"-type questions but also the "how comfortable is that chair?"-kind.) Earlier HN discussion about CS interview questions: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2103161 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2103161 4. If you do well, you'll receive an offer in late December/January which is either conditional or unconditional. Unconditional = congrats, welcome to Oxford, while conditional = we like you, but we'd like to see you get a 5 on your CompSci AP, etc. Here the rate of acceptance is much lower, but again depends on course and college, and is based heavily on your interview.
- neild 16y ago
  That's like answering, "How do I write a good book?" with "Start typing." That's the best answer I can imagine to, "How do I write a good book?" The difference between writers and everyone else? Writers write. Want to write a book? Start typing. Want to write a good book? You won't do it on your first try, so start typing. The time for literary criticism and feedback is after you've written something to work with.

rm445 16y ago

The teaching at Oxford (and Cambridge) is stellar and more Americans should consider it as an option. Getting onto an undergraduate programme is competitive but egalitarian: you need to show you are a top performer academically and then impress at an interview. Your competition at the application stage is (very roughly speaking) the smartest kid from every British school. Very few of them will get in; every course has many more applicants than places. The Oxford University Entrance requirements, http://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate_courses/courses/courses_and_entrance_requirements/ http://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate_courses/courses... , state the following: "US qualifications: Successful candidates would typically have SAT Reasoning Test scores of at least 700 in Critical Reading, Mathematics and the Writing Paper, or ACT with a score of at least 32 out of 36. We would also expect Grade 5 in three or more Advanced Placement tests in appropriate subjects or SAT Subject Tests in three appropriate subjects at 700 or better." - I have no idea what that all means, but for comparison, every single Brit applying will have straight A-grades in their A-levels, and selection is almost entirely based on the interview (and in some cases, extra advanced examinations). So take these entrance requirements with a pinch of salt; they're necessary but not sufficient. All that said, the colleges have extremely wide lee-way in how they make their offers, so exceptional candidates with a slightly offbeat scholastic record might have a chance. Some cynics also note that foreign students may have an advantage because they bring in far more money. But all in all the academic requirements are quite high. To sum up, it's very hard to get in, but not because of prejudice or snobbery, just intense competition.

corin_ 16y ago
Overall a good answer, however there is something to add. For British students, once you turn twenty-one you no longer have the same strict entry requirements, instead it's more a case of proving that you're the kind of person they want than showing what exams you've passed. (Though they're likely to ask you to do some studying before applying, to demonstrate that you're willing/able to learn.) Most likely the same for international 'mature students' as well.
- user24 16y ago
  Yeah, I applied as a mature student to an MSc program and was accepted. At the time I had a first class IT and Philosophy BA, 4-ish years commercial programming experience, and an E grade at AS level Psychology.

haliax 16y ago

I'm an American who applied and got in 4 years ago (graduated with an M.Sc. this past October). The application process is phenomenally simple, especially when compared to that for American universities. 1. You fill out an application for Oxford, containing basic biographical information and some information about the course and college you want to apply for. 2. You fill out a more detailed UCAS application, with your academic history, etc. and write a personal statement 3. You get called for interview either by phone, in person in New York/Vancouver, or in person in Oxford depending on what you can do. 4. You take an exam in your subject of choice. All of this happens between October and November, and you get a response in late December. Your choice of College is somewhat important, as it determines the life you'll have at Oxford, so research that in some depth. I went to New, and loved it, and my thesis supervisor was at Magdalen which is just lovely in every conceivable way (he's also a pretty kickass Computer Scientist). Academically, you'll want a decent SAT score, a good mix of SAT II's and AP's, and a good recommendation from a teacher in a relevant subject area.