5 ms·

Minimum wage is ~$7.25/hr. All one need do is work 25 minutes mundane labor a day to afford 3 square meals per day (see Twitter's @ABuckAPlate). (Corollary: min

Minimum wage is ~$7.25/hr. All one need do is work 25 minutes mundane labor a day to afford 3 square meals per day (see Twitter's @ABuckAPlate). (Corollary: min wage law prohibits anyone earning anything if they can't produce at least $7.25 value per hour.) Collecting garbage, cleaning floors, etc has value - that's why we pay people to do it. Is it really worth more than ~$7.25/hr? would you pay someone $20/hr to do it? A thing is worth what another will give for it. People are willing to trade $7.25 for an hour of mundane labor. And yes, there is real negotiation power. Businesses are having to pay more, or find alternatives, for services because not enough people are willing to do those jobs. That's negotiation, in context of large numbers of people being willing to do a job. BTW: if you're working where Google is, or in LA or the like in general, you MUST provide above-min-wage value because the carrying capacity of those areas has been reached - there are people making >$37/hr wanting to live in the same place, and $MinWage/hr can't compete with $37/hr productivity. I threw my stuff in a truck and permanently moved 1000 miles on short notice - so can others who likewise seek economically viable conditions. I've lived off the land. Most of humanity did. If you don't want to plant seeds and build cabins (always a viable option), get busy doing something others will pay enough for.

tsimionescu 7y ago
> If you don't want to plant seeds and build cabins (always a viable option), get busy doing something others will pay enough for. How will you buy the land to build your cabin and plant your seeds on? We live in a system where all of the land is already owned. > All one need do is work 25 minutes mundane labor a day to afford 3 square meals per day This is just so wrong... Again, you can't have a healthy diet with 3 dollars a day. You also can't keep a job if all you earn is food money - you also have to have a place to live and shower, you have to have clean, non-raggedy clothes, a car, gasoline, maintenance for the car and maybe washing machine, health insurance so your life doesn't crumble at the smallest sign of disease, and possibly others. These are all necessary in order to even have that job which you claim lets you eat for 25 minutes of work a day. > Collecting garbage, cleaning floors, etc has value - that's why we pay people to do it. Is it really worth more than ~$7.25/hr? would you pay someone $20/hr to do it? Your thinking about this the wrong way around. Nobody would be willing to collect garbage for 7.25 if they had some alternative. It is essentially a job of desperation. So, it is vital for us as a society that there are always enough people desperate enough that they are even willing to collect garbage to make some money. And in a worker driven job market (by which I mean, a job market where employers compete for workers, instead of the current economy, where mostly workers compete to find employment), garbage collection would be a high-paying job, precisely because it is absolutely vital for any community, and no one really wants to do it.
- ctdonath 7y ago
  If you don't want a solution, then you will fail. I frequently make healthy meals for $1/plate; don't tell me I can't when I do. Covering meals in 25 minutes or less means time earn for other needs. Give me specifics, and a willingness to make money work, and I'll give you good inexpensive solutions to all needs. The notion of a "worker driven job market", where menial tasks make enormous salaries, or "there should be some alternative", is pure fantasy. Of course everyone has alternatives: anyone can pick a preferred job, find an open position for it, and apply. Supply-and-demand is an economic law: garbage collection is not a high-paying job, because there's always someone willing to do it for less. You think GC should be high-paying, but you're not willing to pay someone high to do it; concocting (and forcing on others) a society inclined as you indicate would quickly devolve back to what we have now, precisely because easy & widely-available jobs are not worth high pay. Bottom line: it takes a certain amount of effort to live off the land (go watch Primitive Technology on YouTube); everything else is an alternative because we contract for better options, and wishing for better doesn't work.

tsimionescu 7y ago

> If you don't want to plant seeds and build cabins (always a viable option), get busy doing something others will pay enough for. How will you buy the land to build your cabin and plant your seeds on? We live in a system where all of the land is already owned. > All one need do is work 25 minutes mundane labor a day to afford 3 square meals per day This is just so wrong... Again, you can't have a healthy diet with 3 dollars a day. You also can't keep a job if all you earn is food money - you also have to have a place to live and shower, you have to have clean, non-raggedy clothes, a car, gasoline, maintenance for the car and maybe washing machine, health insurance so your life doesn't crumble at the smallest sign of disease, and possibly others. These are all necessary in order to even have that job which you claim lets you eat for 25 minutes of work a day. > Collecting garbage, cleaning floors, etc has value - that's why we pay people to do it. Is it really worth more than ~$7.25/hr? would you pay someone $20/hr to do it? Your thinking about this the wrong way around. Nobody would be willing to collect garbage for 7.25 if they had some alternative. It is essentially a job of desperation. So, it is vital for us as a society that there are always enough people desperate enough that they are even willing to collect garbage to make some money. And in a worker driven job market (by which I mean, a job market where employers compete for workers, instead of the current economy, where mostly workers compete to find employment), garbage collection would be a high-paying job, precisely because it is absolutely vital for any community, and no one really wants to do it.

ctdonath 7y ago
If you don't want a solution, then you will fail. I frequently make healthy meals for $1/plate; don't tell me I can't when I do. Covering meals in 25 minutes or less means time earn for other needs. Give me specifics, and a willingness to make money work, and I'll give you good inexpensive solutions to all needs. The notion of a "worker driven job market", where menial tasks make enormous salaries, or "there should be some alternative", is pure fantasy. Of course everyone has alternatives: anyone can pick a preferred job, find an open position for it, and apply. Supply-and-demand is an economic law: garbage collection is not a high-paying job, because there's always someone willing to do it for less. You think GC should be high-paying, but you're not willing to pay someone high to do it; concocting (and forcing on others) a society inclined as you indicate would quickly devolve back to what we have now, precisely because easy & widely-available jobs are not worth high pay. Bottom line: it takes a certain amount of effort to live off the land (go watch Primitive Technology on YouTube); everything else is an alternative because we contract for better options, and wishing for better doesn't work.