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With weight training, for example, not worrying about the details and just doing it might lead to serious injury. You need to do these exercises with proper for

With weight training, for example, not worrying about the details and just doing it might lead to serious injury. You need to do these exercises with proper form. And if you're an out of shape computer geek, you will almost certainly need to fix your posterior chain and upper back before you are ready to do deadlift, squat, bench, and shoulder press safely.

scott_s 16y ago
You can squat, deadlift, bench and shoulder press on your first day. Here is a simple, two step process to start squatting: 1. Stand up. 2. Squat. Oh, there's a lot more to it. And some people actually find air squats harder than weighted squats because there's no counter-balance. But the basic powerlifter movements - squat, deadlift, bench - can be done by people on their first day as long as they use very little weight. In fact, I think it's best to start with those movements to build strength. Having someone to correct your form is good, of course, but not everyone has that luxury and may have to monitor themselves. That's doable as well.
- saturdaysaint 16y ago
  The idea that proper form is self evident or intuitively learned is naive, especially in regard to people whose daily responsibilities don't demand much coordination. If you want to look good for a few years, then yes, you can develop muscle by just going through the motions, but you run a very big risk of systemic injury. I highly recommend anyone looking to get in shape start with a few sessions with a personal trainer who can give feedback on form.
  - scott_s 16y ago
    It's not intuitive nor self evident. But a motivated beginner can learn on their own - I did. I read a lot, watched videos, and paid close attention to my own form. I would have done better with an instructor, but that was not an option. Most "personal trainers" I saw knew nothing about basic, free weight lifts. What I'm trying to dispel is the notion that you shouldn't touch free weights or that free weights are for experienced people only. Use very low weight in the beginning, but no one should start out on machines, nor should they be scared of starting.
    - vimalg2 16y ago
      Most "personal trainers" I saw knew nothing about basic, free weight lifts. This is spot-on where I live. (Kerala, India) The trainers have no experience with proper form coaching for the basic powerlifting exercises. All the gyms here promote themselves as 'Bodybuilding gyms'. All the members want to look like the muscle-bound moviestars from 'Bollywood' (presumably to get 'ze girls' :p) I'm maybe 1 of 3 people in the whole gym clientele(all male) that even uses the Squat Rack. I'm on Stronglifts 5x5 for a month now and my lifts are definitely improving and so is my flexibility and core 'balance'. Surprising side-effect: I don't feel 'clumsy' anymore. And yeah, I get into long winded arguments with the 'trainers' twice a month, about why i don't use the cable machines for 'ze body'. As an engineer at heart, I like to explain the idea to them something like: "You can pimp your cheap-ass car with all the bling you want, but when it counts, the German engine is going to make the difference. Besides, there's no harm in adding bling after you've got your own finely-tuned German engine under the hood" Yes, its corny, but it got the message across and got the 'trainers' off my back.
      - grammaton 16y ago
        I too am one of the only people in my gym who seems to care about building strength as opposed to trying to look like it. As an anecdotal example: I finished five sets of farmer's walks with 105 pound (about 47 and a half kilograms) dumbbells in each hand. After I'd finished, I was approached by a bodybuilder type and told that I was wasting my time. What I really needed to do, he explained, was to do lunges in place, because what I was doing now wasn't "doing anything." Apparently being able to pick up two hundred pounds of weight and walk around with it wasn't "doing anything." Honestly, you're wasting your time getting into it with people like this. It's just a fundamentally different mindset. I just thank them politely for their advice (after all, they really do mean well, they just don't understand) and get on with my routine.
        scott_s 16y ago
        A bodybuilder-type once asked me what farmer's walks "works." Everything, I said. Bodybuilders don't have much concept of conditioning, outside of being able to flex for long periods of time. Powerlifters care about raw strength, but for them, conditioning is being able to hit several very high lifts in the big three at a meet. It is a kind of conditioning, no question, but they're still going to gas pretty soon in any prolonged activity. Strongmen competitors, on the other hand, I think are phenomenal athletes who combine enormous strength with great conditioning.
ebiester 16y ago
Deadlifts, squats, and shoulder presses, done right, will fix your posterior chain and upper back. The trick is avoiding the ego-lift and only do as much as is safe and with proper form. The bigger trick is having someone to show and critique your form. (Gah, I miss lifting!)
- sedachv 16y ago
  Two things that weight training doesn't address is inward shoulder rotation/slumping and "turtle neck," something all people working at a keyboard are prone to. You really have to pay attention and make sure you pull your shoulders back, and keep your head and neck in alignment with the spine by pulling your head back and up (you might need to tilt it down, too). Bench pressing can make the inward shoulders significantly worse by tightening the pectorals. I had a pretty bad problem and didn't realize it until I went to a posture specialist. Now I'm really aware of it - a lot of gym rats seem to have it. Apparently squats and deadlifts will give you pretty extreme imbalances in the hip muscles (that's what the posture specialist and a deep-tissue masseur told me after working on me). You can fix that by stretching. I don't know if it matters, because it doesn't seem to affect me functionally or aesthetically.
  - eru 16y ago
    > Two things that weight training doesn't address is inward shoulder rotation/slumping and "turtle neck," something all people working at a keyboard are prone to. You really have to pay attention and make sure you pull your shoulders back, and keep your head and neck in alignment with the spine by pulling your head back and up (you might need to tilt it down, too). I'll watch out, thanks! Though I feel that with power cleans, pull-ups/chin-ups, and a standing desk at work, those problems might not hit me as hard. > Bench pressing can make the inward shoulders significantly worse by tightening the pectorals. I had a pretty bad problem and didn't realize it until I went to a posture specialist. Now I'm really aware of it - a lot of gym rats seem to have it. At least alternate your bench presses with overhead presses. And do something for your shoulders. > Apparently squats and deadlifts will give you pretty extreme imbalances in the hip muscles (that's what the posture specialist and a deep-tissue masseur told me after working on me). You can fix that by stretching. I don't know if it matters, because it doesn't seem to affect me functionally or aesthetically. Is this true for below parallel squats, too? And what kind of stretching?
calaniz 16y ago
Start with little or no weight. I started my squat with the bar and 2x25 pound weights. I've reached 4x45 pound weights + the bar after about a year. I took it slow and steady because I did not want to injure myself. I actually had someone compliment my squat form the other day! Thats a great feeling knowing where you started. Like anything, you just need to devote effort to getting better.
- eru 16y ago
  Similar for me. I started with just the bar (20kg) in April, and am now at 120kg (i.e. bar plus two 45 pound weights and one 12.5 pound weight on each side). Just make sure you log everything, and keep pushing yourself, but with good form. Squat to (slightly below) parallel.
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
frossie 16y ago
If you are a beginner and gym unfriendly, I have found that strength training sites oriented towards women spend a lot more time talking about proper form (because they know many women won't just turn up to a gym - they want to train in private to start with). Eg: http://www.stumptuous.com/worship-at-the-altar-of-the-goddess-of-form http://www.stumptuous.com/worship-at-the-altar-of-the-goddes...
eru 16y ago
I agree on the proper form. But free weight are on of the best ways to fix your posterior chain and upper back. Pull-ups, press-ups, running and jumping also work wonders for beginners, and it's even harder to get those dangerously wrong. (That is, as long as you don't wear shoes while running. Shoes will make good running form much harder.) Just start slowly, log everything, and build your way up. Don't waste your time, and your form on the gym-machines.

scott_s 16y ago

You can squat, deadlift, bench and shoulder press on your first day. Here is a simple, two step process to start squatting: 1. Stand up. 2. Squat. Oh, there's a lot more to it. And some people actually find air squats harder than weighted squats because there's no counter-balance. But the basic powerlifter movements - squat, deadlift, bench - can be done by people on their first day as long as they use very little weight. In fact, I think it's best to start with those movements to build strength. Having someone to correct your form is good, of course, but not everyone has that luxury and may have to monitor themselves. That's doable as well.

saturdaysaint 16y ago
The idea that proper form is self evident or intuitively learned is naive, especially in regard to people whose daily responsibilities don't demand much coordination. If you want to look good for a few years, then yes, you can develop muscle by just going through the motions, but you run a very big risk of systemic injury. I highly recommend anyone looking to get in shape start with a few sessions with a personal trainer who can give feedback on form.
- scott_s 16y ago
  It's not intuitive nor self evident. But a motivated beginner can learn on their own - I did. I read a lot, watched videos, and paid close attention to my own form. I would have done better with an instructor, but that was not an option. Most "personal trainers" I saw knew nothing about basic, free weight lifts. What I'm trying to dispel is the notion that you shouldn't touch free weights or that free weights are for experienced people only. Use very low weight in the beginning, but no one should start out on machines, nor should they be scared of starting.
  - vimalg2 16y ago
    Most "personal trainers" I saw knew nothing about basic, free weight lifts. This is spot-on where I live. (Kerala, India) The trainers have no experience with proper form coaching for the basic powerlifting exercises. All the gyms here promote themselves as 'Bodybuilding gyms'. All the members want to look like the muscle-bound moviestars from 'Bollywood' (presumably to get 'ze girls' :p) I'm maybe 1 of 3 people in the whole gym clientele(all male) that even uses the Squat Rack. I'm on Stronglifts 5x5 for a month now and my lifts are definitely improving and so is my flexibility and core 'balance'. Surprising side-effect: I don't feel 'clumsy' anymore. And yeah, I get into long winded arguments with the 'trainers' twice a month, about why i don't use the cable machines for 'ze body'. As an engineer at heart, I like to explain the idea to them something like: "You can pimp your cheap-ass car with all the bling you want, but when it counts, the German engine is going to make the difference. Besides, there's no harm in adding bling after you've got your own finely-tuned German engine under the hood" Yes, its corny, but it got the message across and got the 'trainers' off my back.
    - grammaton 16y ago
      I too am one of the only people in my gym who seems to care about building strength as opposed to trying to look like it. As an anecdotal example: I finished five sets of farmer's walks with 105 pound (about 47 and a half kilograms) dumbbells in each hand. After I'd finished, I was approached by a bodybuilder type and told that I was wasting my time. What I really needed to do, he explained, was to do lunges in place, because what I was doing now wasn't "doing anything." Apparently being able to pick up two hundred pounds of weight and walk around with it wasn't "doing anything." Honestly, you're wasting your time getting into it with people like this. It's just a fundamentally different mindset. I just thank them politely for their advice (after all, they really do mean well, they just don't understand) and get on with my routine.
      - scott_s 16y ago
        A bodybuilder-type once asked me what farmer's walks "works." Everything, I said. Bodybuilders don't have much concept of conditioning, outside of being able to flex for long periods of time. Powerlifters care about raw strength, but for them, conditioning is being able to hit several very high lifts in the big three at a meet. It is a kind of conditioning, no question, but they're still going to gas pretty soon in any prolonged activity. Strongmen competitors, on the other hand, I think are phenomenal athletes who combine enormous strength with great conditioning.

ebiester 16y ago

Deadlifts, squats, and shoulder presses, done right, will fix your posterior chain and upper back. The trick is avoiding the ego-lift and only do as much as is safe and with proper form. The bigger trick is having someone to show and critique your form. (Gah, I miss lifting!)

sedachv 16y ago
Two things that weight training doesn't address is inward shoulder rotation/slumping and "turtle neck," something all people working at a keyboard are prone to. You really have to pay attention and make sure you pull your shoulders back, and keep your head and neck in alignment with the spine by pulling your head back and up (you might need to tilt it down, too). Bench pressing can make the inward shoulders significantly worse by tightening the pectorals. I had a pretty bad problem and didn't realize it until I went to a posture specialist. Now I'm really aware of it - a lot of gym rats seem to have it. Apparently squats and deadlifts will give you pretty extreme imbalances in the hip muscles (that's what the posture specialist and a deep-tissue masseur told me after working on me). You can fix that by stretching. I don't know if it matters, because it doesn't seem to affect me functionally or aesthetically.
- eru 16y ago
  > Two things that weight training doesn't address is inward shoulder rotation/slumping and "turtle neck," something all people working at a keyboard are prone to. You really have to pay attention and make sure you pull your shoulders back, and keep your head and neck in alignment with the spine by pulling your head back and up (you might need to tilt it down, too). I'll watch out, thanks! Though I feel that with power cleans, pull-ups/chin-ups, and a standing desk at work, those problems might not hit me as hard. > Bench pressing can make the inward shoulders significantly worse by tightening the pectorals. I had a pretty bad problem and didn't realize it until I went to a posture specialist. Now I'm really aware of it - a lot of gym rats seem to have it. At least alternate your bench presses with overhead presses. And do something for your shoulders. > Apparently squats and deadlifts will give you pretty extreme imbalances in the hip muscles (that's what the posture specialist and a deep-tissue masseur told me after working on me). You can fix that by stretching. I don't know if it matters, because it doesn't seem to affect me functionally or aesthetically. Is this true for below parallel squats, too? And what kind of stretching?

calaniz 16y ago

Start with little or no weight. I started my squat with the bar and 2x25 pound weights. I've reached 4x45 pound weights + the bar after about a year. I took it slow and steady because I did not want to injure myself. I actually had someone compliment my squat form the other day! Thats a great feeling knowing where you started. Like anything, you just need to devote effort to getting better.

eru 16y ago
Similar for me. I started with just the bar (20kg) in April, and am now at 120kg (i.e. bar plus two 45 pound weights and one 12.5 pound weight on each side). Just make sure you log everything, and keep pushing yourself, but with good form. Squat to (slightly below) parallel.

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

frossie 16y ago

If you are a beginner and gym unfriendly, I have found that strength training sites oriented towards women spend a lot more time talking about proper form (because they know many women won't just turn up to a gym - they want to train in private to start with). Eg: http://www.stumptuous.com/worship-at-the-altar-of-the-goddess-of-form http://www.stumptuous.com/worship-at-the-altar-of-the-goddes...

eru 16y ago

I agree on the proper form. But free weight are on of the best ways to fix your posterior chain and upper back. Pull-ups, press-ups, running and jumping also work wonders for beginners, and it's even harder to get those dangerously wrong. (That is, as long as you don't wear shoes while running. Shoes will make good running form much harder.) Just start slowly, log everything, and build your way up. Don't waste your time, and your form on the gym-machines.