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If I understand correctly "fixing" MCAS would be quick but audit found out more problems and Boeing started basically a refactoring of their computer architectu

by Yizahi 7y ago

If I understand correctly "fixing" MCAS would be quick but audit found out more problems and Boeing started basically a refactoring of their computer architecture (including hardware changes) which itself takes a lot of time and didn't pass new audit yet.

thisisnico 7y ago
Didn't I read from another hacker news poster that the software engineering and design was outsourced? Anyone know?
- Operyl 7y ago
  In the article they mention that they outsourced at least some of it. “ As Boeing and the subcontractor that supplied the flight-control computer, the United Technologies Corp. division Collins Aerospace Systems, worked through these changes, it has at times created tension.”
  - NovemberWhiskey 7y ago
    It is extremely common that various parts of design and manufacture of aircraft are "outsourced". The airframe manufacturer is essentially never the manufacturer for whole subsystems and there is a large subcontracting network. This is an entirely normal and long-standing practice.
    - Operyl 7y ago
      Didn't say it wasn't, I was just answering GP's question :).
- peteradio 7y ago
  Outsourcing is a symptom of the real issue. I don't think outsourcing necessarily causes these problems. Subjugating engineering to a lower class and elevating politics/accounting doesn't really generate great engineered products, go figure.
  - madengr 7y ago
    As an engineer in the defense/aero industry, this is so true. Legal, HR, and IT run everything, with the engineering staff shat upon.
- madengr 7y ago
  Probably multiple levels of outsourcing. Boeing > Collins > Indian for $9/hr.
- salawat 7y ago
  https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/boeing-outsourced-coding-for-9-an-hour/ https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/boeing-outsourced-coding... They didn't work on the Flight computer supposedly. Just the Flight displays. There was a Bloomberg article with more detail. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-06-28/boeing-s-737-max-software-outsourced-to-9-an-hour-engineers https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-06-28/boeing-s-...
danso 7y ago
Yes, that's the official explanation. But these problems (such as gamma rays scrambling the flight computer, causing the plane to aggressively dive) are ostensibly not new, or related to MCAS. The issue is not just that gamma rays theoretically – and MCAS, in real-life and quite tragically – cause the plane to dive, but that Boeing overestimated pilots' ability to react to the underlying systems error. I think it seems suspicious Boeing only now decides "Oh, looks like we should also modernize the 737 computers", while asserting that MCAS itself was still a great idea.

by Yizahi 7y ago

thisisnico 7y ago

Didn't I read from another hacker news poster that the software engineering and design was outsourced? Anyone know?

Operyl 7y ago
In the article they mention that they outsourced at least some of it. “ As Boeing and the subcontractor that supplied the flight-control computer, the United Technologies Corp. division Collins Aerospace Systems, worked through these changes, it has at times created tension.”
- NovemberWhiskey 7y ago
  It is extremely common that various parts of design and manufacture of aircraft are "outsourced". The airframe manufacturer is essentially never the manufacturer for whole subsystems and there is a large subcontracting network. This is an entirely normal and long-standing practice.
  - Operyl 7y ago
    Didn't say it wasn't, I was just answering GP's question :).
peteradio 7y ago
Outsourcing is a symptom of the real issue. I don't think outsourcing necessarily causes these problems. Subjugating engineering to a lower class and elevating politics/accounting doesn't really generate great engineered products, go figure.
- madengr 7y ago
  As an engineer in the defense/aero industry, this is so true. Legal, HR, and IT run everything, with the engineering staff shat upon.
madengr 7y ago
Probably multiple levels of outsourcing. Boeing > Collins > Indian for $9/hr.
salawat 7y ago
https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/boeing-outsourced-coding-for-9-an-hour/ https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/boeing-outsourced-coding... They didn't work on the Flight computer supposedly. Just the Flight displays. There was a Bloomberg article with more detail. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-06-28/boeing-s-737-max-software-outsourced-to-9-an-hour-engineers https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-06-28/boeing-s-...

danso 7y ago

Yes, that's the official explanation. But these problems (such as gamma rays scrambling the flight computer, causing the plane to aggressively dive) are ostensibly not new, or related to MCAS. The issue is not just that gamma rays theoretically – and MCAS, in real-life and quite tragically – cause the plane to dive, but that Boeing overestimated pilots' ability to react to the underlying systems error. I think it seems suspicious Boeing only now decides "Oh, looks like we should also modernize the 737 computers", while asserting that MCAS itself was still a great idea.