3 ms·

So according to the article (the paper isn't linked anywhere, so I have to rely on the reporting), the study found that men and women are using the same parts o

So according to the article (the paper isn't linked anywhere, so I have to rely on the reporting), the study found that men and women are using the same parts of brain when they do math. That's a completely unsurprising result. Was anyone ever claiming that it is not the case? However, I don't understand how the brain activity patterns can prove (or disprove) that women and men have 100% equal ability to do math. I just don't see the connection between those two things.

dawg- 7y ago
>That's a completely unsurprising result. Anyone could have guessed this, because it's common sense. But the purpose of science is to produce knowledge based on empirical evidence. Common sense has its place, but science wants to test everything. According to a scientist it's not a fact just because it's common sense. Now this fact is part of the body of scientific evidence, and that is a powerful thing. If you are trying to figure out why men are so inclined to math/CS, I think it makes a lot of sense to start at the very bottom of the problem; what do their brains look like when they are literally doing the thing? We can officially rule that out, so now we can fairly move up the chain and introduce more complex questions.
DoofusOfDeath 7y ago
I'd be curious to know what correlations do exist between brain imagery and mathematical ability, both with and without taking sex into account.
- edflsafoiewq 7y ago
  Yeah, I'd have been way more interested in how math "looks" in the brains of math professors or something.
steanne 7y ago
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41539-019-0057-x https://www.nature.com/articles/s41539-019-0057-x
cmiles74 7y ago
If you are coming from the point of view that males are better at math then females, then the next thing to wonder is "why"? This study attempted to find some factual backing for the most popular explanation: that there is a biological difference between the brains of male and female people that causes males to be better at math. This study didn't find any such difference, in the study both gender's brains worked in the same way. They studied children in an attempt to factor out some other influences (i.e. societal).
- Allower 7y ago
  If you have that point of view you are an idiot, because you clearly haven't given the questions even a moment of rational thought. This is precisely the WRONG way to do science
- rfhjt 7y ago
  Not so quickly. They didn't find any obvious differences in some basic coarse metrics. That's like stating that the thermal image of AMD and Intel processors is about the same and thus their abilities are the same. The only thing this study proves us that the differences are more subtle than what they could measure.
Nasrudith 7y ago
Essentially if they both have the same underlying operation there is no apparent constraint or differentiation. It may or may not immediately prove anything but it suggests there isn't any reason to believe in inherent differences - check elsewhere for proof. A clear disproof or proof would involve observing a hard constraint of some sort. For a blatantly counterfactual analogy imagine that they found neural patterns for math were literally the same as computer processors done in brain cells like bored engineers implementating computers in Dwarf Fortress or Minecraft. They could decode patterns and found human calculations involve bit registers in their head - men fit between 3 to 6 base five "bits" directly and women have 2 to 5 base six "bits" as size constraints prevent fitting more in. They found larger numbers were done via piecemeal operations over a memory map slowing things down and increased clockspeed was possible but would literally cook their brain. The upper bound for men in this bizzare hypothetical world would be higher.
chongli 7y ago
Men and women have the same math ability on average. Do they have the same standard deviation in math ability? That’s a different question. If you look at the people studying math at a post-grad level and beyond, I doubt you will find anyone with average ability.

dawg- 7y ago

>That's a completely unsurprising result. Anyone could have guessed this, because it's common sense. But the purpose of science is to produce knowledge based on empirical evidence. Common sense has its place, but science wants to test everything. According to a scientist it's not a fact just because it's common sense. Now this fact is part of the body of scientific evidence, and that is a powerful thing. If you are trying to figure out why men are so inclined to math/CS, I think it makes a lot of sense to start at the very bottom of the problem; what do their brains look like when they are literally doing the thing? We can officially rule that out, so now we can fairly move up the chain and introduce more complex questions.

DoofusOfDeath 7y ago

I'd be curious to know what correlations do exist between brain imagery and mathematical ability, both with and without taking sex into account.

edflsafoiewq 7y ago
Yeah, I'd have been way more interested in how math "looks" in the brains of math professors or something.

steanne 7y ago

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41539-019-0057-x https://www.nature.com/articles/s41539-019-0057-x

cmiles74 7y ago

If you are coming from the point of view that males are better at math then females, then the next thing to wonder is "why"? This study attempted to find some factual backing for the most popular explanation: that there is a biological difference between the brains of male and female people that causes males to be better at math. This study didn't find any such difference, in the study both gender's brains worked in the same way. They studied children in an attempt to factor out some other influences (i.e. societal).

Allower 7y ago
If you have that point of view you are an idiot, because you clearly haven't given the questions even a moment of rational thought. This is precisely the WRONG way to do science
rfhjt 7y ago
Not so quickly. They didn't find any obvious differences in some basic coarse metrics. That's like stating that the thermal image of AMD and Intel processors is about the same and thus their abilities are the same. The only thing this study proves us that the differences are more subtle than what they could measure.

Nasrudith 7y ago

Essentially if they both have the same underlying operation there is no apparent constraint or differentiation. It may or may not immediately prove anything but it suggests there isn't any reason to believe in inherent differences - check elsewhere for proof. A clear disproof or proof would involve observing a hard constraint of some sort. For a blatantly counterfactual analogy imagine that they found neural patterns for math were literally the same as computer processors done in brain cells like bored engineers implementating computers in Dwarf Fortress or Minecraft. They could decode patterns and found human calculations involve bit registers in their head - men fit between 3 to 6 base five "bits" directly and women have 2 to 5 base six "bits" as size constraints prevent fitting more in. They found larger numbers were done via piecemeal operations over a memory map slowing things down and increased clockspeed was possible but would literally cook their brain. The upper bound for men in this bizzare hypothetical world would be higher.

chongli 7y ago

Men and women have the same math ability on average. Do they have the same standard deviation in math ability? That’s a different question. If you look at the people studying math at a post-grad level and beyond, I doubt you will find anyone with average ability.