4 ms·

I’m no fan of Trump, but the false moral equivalence parenthetically made of Trump to Xi Jinping who jails journalists for even expressing a semblance of dissen

I’m no fan of Trump, but the false moral equivalence parenthetically made of Trump to Xi Jinping who jails journalists for even expressing a semblance of dissent on social media tells you all you need to know about what Scott’s opinion on morality is worth.

pjc50 7y ago
Trump has condemned journalists often enough; he only lacks the absolute power necessary to jail them.
- utternerd 7y ago
  It is acceptable to condemn others you disagree with, it is not acceptable to throw them in a cage.
  - pjc50 7y ago
    e.g. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-48696131 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-48696131 - it's an empty threat, but it's still a threat.
KevinEldon 7y ago
I read that as The Americans, The Russians, or The Chinese with their current leaders written in as stand-ins.
- jonfw 7y ago
  The false moral equivalence of american government with the totalitarian dictatorships of China and Russia is extremely misguided.
  - tzs 7y ago
    Domestically, yes. Internationally, no. The US has a long history, comparable to if not more extensive than either China or Russia, of supporting totalitarian regimes in other countries. When accessing the potential danger of a new technology, for a large number of ordinary people in a lot of places around the world the chances of it being misused by the US against them is as likely as it being misused by Russia or China against them, and so lumping those three together is not unreasonable.
    - tyri_kai_psomi 7y ago
      China is quite literally imprisoning their own citizens based on their faith and harvesting their organs for buyers while they are still alive. That's in addition to their Orwellian social credit system. That's in addition to their less recent massacres and abuses of totalitarian power. Please just stop. There is literally no comparison. If you asked me to die by a gas chamber or by being paralyzed, but still aware, and have my kidneys taken out, I'd take the gas chamber.
whatshisface 7y ago
Yeah, I think Scott slipped up by making his reply so specific to one side of 2019 politics. The issue he's dealing with doesn't have anything to do with Trump or Greta Thunberg, but by bringing up their names he's shutting off critical thought in much of his audience by activating the political "yay us, boo them" reflex. Democrats will be inclined to automatically agree with him, Republicans will be inclined to automatically disagree, and critical thought will be poorer for it. Hitler was a real person who existed, and there are some lessons to be learned from that time in history, but invoking Godwin's law is frowned upon because even the mention of his name tends to shut people's brains down. The same principle generalizes to any highly polarized name. Scott Aaronson could learn something from Scott Alexander on this one. ;)
OscarCunningham 7y ago
Scott replies to this objection in the comments: > Trump has told us openly, over and over, that he’d do the same if he could (e.g., jail his political opponents). It’s only our system of checks and balances, or what’s left of it, that’s prevented him.

pjc50 7y ago

Trump has condemned journalists often enough; he only lacks the absolute power necessary to jail them.

utternerd 7y ago
It is acceptable to condemn others you disagree with, it is not acceptable to throw them in a cage.
- pjc50 7y ago
  e.g. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-48696131 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-48696131 - it's an empty threat, but it's still a threat.

KevinEldon 7y ago

I read that as The Americans, The Russians, or The Chinese with their current leaders written in as stand-ins.

jonfw 7y ago
The false moral equivalence of american government with the totalitarian dictatorships of China and Russia is extremely misguided.
- tzs 7y ago
  Domestically, yes. Internationally, no. The US has a long history, comparable to if not more extensive than either China or Russia, of supporting totalitarian regimes in other countries. When accessing the potential danger of a new technology, for a large number of ordinary people in a lot of places around the world the chances of it being misused by the US against them is as likely as it being misused by Russia or China against them, and so lumping those three together is not unreasonable.
  - tyri_kai_psomi 7y ago
    China is quite literally imprisoning their own citizens based on their faith and harvesting their organs for buyers while they are still alive. That's in addition to their Orwellian social credit system. That's in addition to their less recent massacres and abuses of totalitarian power. Please just stop. There is literally no comparison. If you asked me to die by a gas chamber or by being paralyzed, but still aware, and have my kidneys taken out, I'd take the gas chamber.

whatshisface 7y ago

Yeah, I think Scott slipped up by making his reply so specific to one side of 2019 politics. The issue he's dealing with doesn't have anything to do with Trump or Greta Thunberg, but by bringing up their names he's shutting off critical thought in much of his audience by activating the political "yay us, boo them" reflex. Democrats will be inclined to automatically agree with him, Republicans will be inclined to automatically disagree, and critical thought will be poorer for it. Hitler was a real person who existed, and there are some lessons to be learned from that time in history, but invoking Godwin's law is frowned upon because even the mention of his name tends to shut people's brains down. The same principle generalizes to any highly polarized name. Scott Aaronson could learn something from Scott Alexander on this one. ;)

OscarCunningham 7y ago

Scott replies to this objection in the comments: > Trump has told us openly, over and over, that he’d do the same if he could (e.g., jail his political opponents). It’s only our system of checks and balances, or what’s left of it, that’s prevented him.