7 ms·

If unemployment was a matter of marketable skills, fresh grads probably wouldn't be at the top of the list of groups with high unemployment. I'm all for traini

by roc 16y ago

If unemployment was a matter of marketable skills, fresh grads probably wouldn't be at the top of the list of groups with high unemployment. I'm all for training and educating instead of just handing people money. Or as a condition of handing people money. Or just making it available to the unemployed at no cost. But 99 weeks was an exception and AFAIK no-one is getting 99 weeks ever again. So bringing that into the discussion makes the whole thing seem like a disingenuous class war against the unemployment-is-spring-break strawman. Frankly, I have a hard time believing that anyone who conflates 'unemployment' with party time has never been on unemployment or known anyone close who has. You don't make what you used to make on unemployment. You won't be paying your bills with it. You'll tap your savings, and those will dwindle away. You may well still lose your house. Your stress level is through the roof and your personal relationships will suffer as well. I can understand people whose moral hackles get raised, when they hear of an unemployed person who partakes in leisure activities. But if you've ever been in the situation, or seen it up close, you know it's not at all what it looks like.

jswinghammer 16y ago
Well I have family who are basically using it to supplement their retirement. They are about to get to 99 weeks and will get no more. I think back to when I was out of school and the only real skill I had was "I'm good at learning things." I couldn't program very well and I didn't know much about databases. I had some connections and found a job and fixed those problems (mostly). Unemployment sucks but there's no doubt many people aren't really using the time well.
jessriedel 16y ago
I don't disagree except with this: > But if you've ever been in the situation, or seen it up close, you know it's not at all what it looks like. I've personally known a guy on unemployment for over a year, able-bodied with a college degree. He snowboarded 5 days a week, but admitted that when his unemployment ran out he was probably going to have to start looking for a job. It really was "party time" for him, though I don't claim he was the norm. I'm just giving this anecdotal evidence to say that if we want to discuss the usefulness of long-term unemployment benefits, we're going to need hard data. Your descriptions of what unemployment is really like aren't any more convincing evidence than the OP's.
- dailyrorschach 16y ago
  Well, again this is all anecdotal. But in my experience with friends and personal, it really depends on whether or not the young person has a support system from their parents or others. In my case, less then a year after graduation the agency I was working at lost our biggest client, I was the newest hire, and was in the first round of what ended up being a reduction of, no exaggeration 90% of the entire company so it could then be acquired. This was March 2009. I didn't have any real savings, and my parents couldn't bail me out. I qualified for the maximum which was about $316 per week after taxes. So of course immediately I was looking for a job, and had an offer in hand by the end of April, but it was for a lower paying job, it was clearly a stop-gap job. I think many people my age, don't want stop-gaps, but when you don't have a support system you need to do what needs to be done. Of course I kept moving forward and looking to move up, made a move from DC to NY for better money, and continue advancing. But had I not taken the "stop-gap" I would've crashed and burned. And so, the other folks I know who didn't take similar paths had one thing in common: they could count on their families or some financial support system. I don't begrudge that, I would do the same for my future heretofore unborn children, but it seems to me to be a common thread.
- roc 16y ago
  It's not evidence. It's an anecdotal counter-point to an unfounded and all-to-common lazy characterization. Feel free to look up any number of sociological and economic studies about what happens to people who are on unemployment. Suicide rises, separation rises (divorce itself tends not to, as divorce is expensive), domestic abuse rises, savings plummet, bankruptcy rises, foreclosure rises, future earnings drop. The studies have shown that it looks nothing like party time in the aggregate. But somehow that doesn't stop people moralizing from a privileged vantage. Edit: Frankly, it's just the same damn Welfare Queen argument all over again and I keep hoping that nonsense was long since disproved and buried, back with Trickle Down and the rest of Reagan's 'conservative' fiscal bonafides.
  - presidentender 16y ago
    >It's not evidence. In fairness, neither is yours. My anecdotes regarding the unemployed match GP poster, not yours. For the unemployed young I've known, it is "party time." I do not claim that my anecdotal information is data on which to base policy decisions.
motters 16y ago
> anyone who conflates 'unemployment' with party time has never been on unemployment or known anyone close who has Totally agree. Being unemployed is not much fun, but it seems that there has always existed a myth, typically promulgated by the mainstream media, that being unemployed is somehow a luxurious lifestyle of endless leisure and procreation.
- ZachPruckowski 16y ago
  >"endless leisure and procreation" I think you mean REcreation here, but I guess it could go either way.
  - motters 16y ago
    No, there have often been claims made by politicians and tabloid hacks along the lines of "the poor/unemployed are breeding too much".
100k 16y ago
> You'll tap your savings, and those will dwindle away. This chart of US contribution to household assets makes that point pretty clearly: http://motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2011/01/chart-day-financial-assets http://motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2011/01/chart-day-financia... There were no net withdrawals of US household assets in the 1981, 1991 or 2001 recessions. The current recession is different. Americans have withdrawn over $300 billion in savings to keep themselves afloat.

by roc 16y ago

jswinghammer 16y ago

Well I have family who are basically using it to supplement their retirement. They are about to get to 99 weeks and will get no more. I think back to when I was out of school and the only real skill I had was "I'm good at learning things." I couldn't program very well and I didn't know much about databases. I had some connections and found a job and fixed those problems (mostly). Unemployment sucks but there's no doubt many people aren't really using the time well.

jessriedel 16y ago

I don't disagree except with this: > But if you've ever been in the situation, or seen it up close, you know it's not at all what it looks like. I've personally known a guy on unemployment for over a year, able-bodied with a college degree. He snowboarded 5 days a week, but admitted that when his unemployment ran out he was probably going to have to start looking for a job. It really was "party time" for him, though I don't claim he was the norm. I'm just giving this anecdotal evidence to say that if we want to discuss the usefulness of long-term unemployment benefits, we're going to need hard data. Your descriptions of what unemployment is really like aren't any more convincing evidence than the OP's.

dailyrorschach 16y ago
Well, again this is all anecdotal. But in my experience with friends and personal, it really depends on whether or not the young person has a support system from their parents or others. In my case, less then a year after graduation the agency I was working at lost our biggest client, I was the newest hire, and was in the first round of what ended up being a reduction of, no exaggeration 90% of the entire company so it could then be acquired. This was March 2009. I didn't have any real savings, and my parents couldn't bail me out. I qualified for the maximum which was about $316 per week after taxes. So of course immediately I was looking for a job, and had an offer in hand by the end of April, but it was for a lower paying job, it was clearly a stop-gap job. I think many people my age, don't want stop-gaps, but when you don't have a support system you need to do what needs to be done. Of course I kept moving forward and looking to move up, made a move from DC to NY for better money, and continue advancing. But had I not taken the "stop-gap" I would've crashed and burned. And so, the other folks I know who didn't take similar paths had one thing in common: they could count on their families or some financial support system. I don't begrudge that, I would do the same for my future heretofore unborn children, but it seems to me to be a common thread.
roc 16y ago
It's not evidence. It's an anecdotal counter-point to an unfounded and all-to-common lazy characterization. Feel free to look up any number of sociological and economic studies about what happens to people who are on unemployment. Suicide rises, separation rises (divorce itself tends not to, as divorce is expensive), domestic abuse rises, savings plummet, bankruptcy rises, foreclosure rises, future earnings drop. The studies have shown that it looks nothing like party time in the aggregate. But somehow that doesn't stop people moralizing from a privileged vantage. Edit: Frankly, it's just the same damn Welfare Queen argument all over again and I keep hoping that nonsense was long since disproved and buried, back with Trickle Down and the rest of Reagan's 'conservative' fiscal bonafides.
- presidentender 16y ago
  >It's not evidence. In fairness, neither is yours. My anecdotes regarding the unemployed match GP poster, not yours. For the unemployed young I've known, it is "party time." I do not claim that my anecdotal information is data on which to base policy decisions.

motters 16y ago

> anyone who conflates 'unemployment' with party time has never been on unemployment or known anyone close who has Totally agree. Being unemployed is not much fun, but it seems that there has always existed a myth, typically promulgated by the mainstream media, that being unemployed is somehow a luxurious lifestyle of endless leisure and procreation.

ZachPruckowski 16y ago
>"endless leisure and procreation" I think you mean REcreation here, but I guess it could go either way.
- motters 16y ago
  No, there have often been claims made by politicians and tabloid hacks along the lines of "the poor/unemployed are breeding too much".

100k 16y ago

> You'll tap your savings, and those will dwindle away. This chart of US contribution to household assets makes that point pretty clearly: http://motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2011/01/chart-day-financial-assets http://motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2011/01/chart-day-financia... There were no net withdrawals of US household assets in the 1981, 1991 or 2001 recessions. The current recession is different. Americans have withdrawn over $300 billion in savings to keep themselves afloat.