5 ms·

I don't think its realistic to expect someone who has been a marketing manager for 20 years to get laid off and then tell them to go learn SQL or get a plumber

I don't think its realistic to expect someone who has been a marketing manager for 20 years to get laid off and then tell them to go learn SQL or get a plumber certification. Most people don't think that way- their career is a huge part of their identity. They need to exhaust all options and go through the whole 7 stages of grief, they can't just switch careers on a dime.

ams6110 16y ago
True, that's why we have unemployment, and other entitlements for job retraining, to help people through that transition period. But 99 weeks?
- rick_2047 16y ago
  Really, 99 weeks is just too much. If you cannot get rehired in a year or so, do you really think you will get hired at all? If you were good enough or lucky enough you would get a job in 1 year or else you seriously need to rethink your "career"
  - locopati 16y ago
    That's pretty easy to say. What happens when jobs are not available? Or when people cannot relocate to where jobs are? Do we cast off a large body of people to sink on their own? And when they are sinking, will that be good for society?
    - rick_2047 16y ago
      I live in a country with no such guarantee and people have managed to live.
      - jarek 16y ago
        And there's no social unrest and the well-off aren't barricading themselves in gated neighbourhoods.
      - jhamburger 16y ago
        Which country, out of curiousity? I'm only asking because I'm not aware of any countries without some form of social safety net where life isn't absolutely miserable for the underclass.
        philiphodgen 16y ago
        Sherlock says: India. 1. Look at HN profile. See manky website listed there: lifeasparesh.co.cc. 2. That website doesn't load for me. 3. Go to Mr. Google and type in lifeasparesh. 4. Find blog.lifesasparesh.in. 5. Notice that in the search results the owner of this site reports a HN username of rick_2047. Economic/political analysis may now continue based on this piece of information. <detour> (And yeah I'm receptive to ideas the original article. "99 weeks of xbox" is hyperbole but after pruning away the hyperbole from the article -- and the opposing comments in this thread -- there are some hard questions remaining. It's worth talking about these questions in an adult manner while attempting to avoiding Godwin-lite debate tactics. Which, I confess, I frequently find myself using because it's fun to go "Ha! Score!) </detour>
  - ebiester 16y ago
    Here's the problem. So, you've gone a year looking for that marketing job at a high level. Then, you start looking at mid-level. You have more experience, but people think you're "overqualified." So, you even try low-level, and you don't even get interviews. Then, you start on jobs that use similar skills. But then, you're competing against people who have the same exact experience. You try call centers, but most of them won't take you if you haven't had a job in 6 months. If you're lucky, eventually somebody takes a chance on you. Sometimes, that means that the labor supply has to tighten some. Oh, and there's a perverse disincentive to start a business - if you do, you lose all of your benefits.
- _delirium 16y ago
  If you were in exactly the right circumstances, it's possible you pieced together 99 weeks through temporary extensions, but it's not the normal period, or something you can count on. During the recession, a sequence of stimulus bills authorized temporary extensions for people who were nearing the benefits expiration (normally 26 weeks) and still hadn't found jobs, basically as a way of propping up demand. If a bunch of people lose their jobs at approximately the same time, and the economy stays weak such that many of them fail to find jobs within 26 weeks, then 26 weeks after the onset of the downturn there's a second downturn as a bunch of people lose a source of income. There are alternative ways to cushion that, like just handing out $n to everyone (or everyone below some level of income), but a temporary extension to unemployment benefits was the form of stimulus that managed to get political consensus. There was never anyone at any time who had 99 weeks of guaranteed unemployment benefits, though. The only way you could've planned on that is if you lost your job near the beginning of the recession, and then correctly bet that Congress would pass a series of temporary benefits extensions.
- Nobido 16y ago
  I'm not American and could be mistaken but I was under the impression that this 99 weeks plan was a temporary extension because of the recession. The idea being that while many, many fields may not be hiring now, whe. The economy is up to speed enough to start showing sizable changes in unemployment rates, those jobs will come back. But they are thinking one year may not be enough time. Am I mistaken? Is the 99 weeks permanent? not that that would be bad - Ive known many on welfare... It's hardly a fun times free ride. And I have known many who have needed more than two years, after honestly trying many different avenues.
nkassis 16y ago
I don't think getting training will help those people automagically become employable. But those programs already exists and I'm pretty sure many states have programs where they will pay for you to take training.
johngalt 16y ago
It's not as bad as you would think. A smart motivated person can succeed anywhere. I spent a year in sales during the dotcom bust. Despite being an introverted geek, I managed to break all kinds of sales records and get fast tracked for advancement. If I had stayed I could easily have reached similar compensation/status within three years. On the other hand, I'd also agree with Zed Shaw about technology people being rockstars in any industry besides technology. Inside of 2 months I had better tools built for myself than anyone else had and it was a marked advantage. So it's possible it was just easy for me due to my background.
- gwern 16y ago
  > Inside of 2 months I had better tools built for myself than anyone else had and it was a marked advantage. So it's possible it was just easy for me due to my background. I'd be interested in reading about that.
- jhamburger 16y ago
  The problem is that not everyone is awesome.

ams6110 16y ago

True, that's why we have unemployment, and other entitlements for job retraining, to help people through that transition period. But 99 weeks?

rick_2047 16y ago
Really, 99 weeks is just too much. If you cannot get rehired in a year or so, do you really think you will get hired at all? If you were good enough or lucky enough you would get a job in 1 year or else you seriously need to rethink your "career"
- locopati 16y ago
  That's pretty easy to say. What happens when jobs are not available? Or when people cannot relocate to where jobs are? Do we cast off a large body of people to sink on their own? And when they are sinking, will that be good for society?
  - rick_2047 16y ago
    I live in a country with no such guarantee and people have managed to live.
    - jarek 16y ago
      And there's no social unrest and the well-off aren't barricading themselves in gated neighbourhoods.
    - jhamburger 16y ago
      Which country, out of curiousity? I'm only asking because I'm not aware of any countries without some form of social safety net where life isn't absolutely miserable for the underclass.
      - philiphodgen 16y ago
        Sherlock says: India. 1. Look at HN profile. See manky website listed there: lifeasparesh.co.cc. 2. That website doesn't load for me. 3. Go to Mr. Google and type in lifeasparesh. 4. Find blog.lifesasparesh.in. 5. Notice that in the search results the owner of this site reports a HN username of rick_2047. Economic/political analysis may now continue based on this piece of information. <detour> (And yeah I'm receptive to ideas the original article. "99 weeks of xbox" is hyperbole but after pruning away the hyperbole from the article -- and the opposing comments in this thread -- there are some hard questions remaining. It's worth talking about these questions in an adult manner while attempting to avoiding Godwin-lite debate tactics. Which, I confess, I frequently find myself using because it's fun to go "Ha! Score!) </detour>
- ebiester 16y ago
  Here's the problem. So, you've gone a year looking for that marketing job at a high level. Then, you start looking at mid-level. You have more experience, but people think you're "overqualified." So, you even try low-level, and you don't even get interviews. Then, you start on jobs that use similar skills. But then, you're competing against people who have the same exact experience. You try call centers, but most of them won't take you if you haven't had a job in 6 months. If you're lucky, eventually somebody takes a chance on you. Sometimes, that means that the labor supply has to tighten some. Oh, and there's a perverse disincentive to start a business - if you do, you lose all of your benefits.
_delirium 16y ago
If you were in exactly the right circumstances, it's possible you pieced together 99 weeks through temporary extensions, but it's not the normal period, or something you can count on. During the recession, a sequence of stimulus bills authorized temporary extensions for people who were nearing the benefits expiration (normally 26 weeks) and still hadn't found jobs, basically as a way of propping up demand. If a bunch of people lose their jobs at approximately the same time, and the economy stays weak such that many of them fail to find jobs within 26 weeks, then 26 weeks after the onset of the downturn there's a second downturn as a bunch of people lose a source of income. There are alternative ways to cushion that, like just handing out $n to everyone (or everyone below some level of income), but a temporary extension to unemployment benefits was the form of stimulus that managed to get political consensus. There was never anyone at any time who had 99 weeks of guaranteed unemployment benefits, though. The only way you could've planned on that is if you lost your job near the beginning of the recession, and then correctly bet that Congress would pass a series of temporary benefits extensions.
Nobido 16y ago
I'm not American and could be mistaken but I was under the impression that this 99 weeks plan was a temporary extension because of the recession. The idea being that while many, many fields may not be hiring now, whe. The economy is up to speed enough to start showing sizable changes in unemployment rates, those jobs will come back. But they are thinking one year may not be enough time. Am I mistaken? Is the 99 weeks permanent? not that that would be bad - Ive known many on welfare... It's hardly a fun times free ride. And I have known many who have needed more than two years, after honestly trying many different avenues.

nkassis 16y ago

I don't think getting training will help those people automagically become employable. But those programs already exists and I'm pretty sure many states have programs where they will pay for you to take training.

johngalt 16y ago

It's not as bad as you would think. A smart motivated person can succeed anywhere. I spent a year in sales during the dotcom bust. Despite being an introverted geek, I managed to break all kinds of sales records and get fast tracked for advancement. If I had stayed I could easily have reached similar compensation/status within three years. On the other hand, I'd also agree with Zed Shaw about technology people being rockstars in any industry besides technology. Inside of 2 months I had better tools built for myself than anyone else had and it was a marked advantage. So it's possible it was just easy for me due to my background.

gwern 16y ago
> Inside of 2 months I had better tools built for myself than anyone else had and it was a marked advantage. So it's possible it was just easy for me due to my background. I'd be interested in reading about that.
jhamburger 16y ago
The problem is that not everyone is awesome.