5 ms·

The alternative to a rule driven machine is human decision makers whose emotions will play a role, sooner or later. (Prejudice and favouritism is just two emoti

by nroets 7y ago

The alternative to a rule driven machine is human decision makers whose emotions will play a role, sooner or later. (Prejudice and favouritism is just two emotions that are bad in this case) With a rule driven machine, the rules and be reviewed for any direct form of prejudice and favouritism.

danso 7y ago
We've already had rule-driven frameworks: three strikes and mandatory minimums, the latter of which resulted in huge sentences for non-violent drug offenses – particularly those involving crack, a drug more prevalent in black communities, and for which the threshold to trigger a mandatory sentence was 1/100th that of powder cocaine: https://www.aclu.org/other/cracks-system-20-years-unjust-federal-crack-cocaine-law https://www.aclu.org/other/cracks-system-20-years-unjust-fed...
- AlexTWithBeard 7y ago
  That's something I never managed to understand: if I'm a black person, and I know that current laws will unfairly publish me for drugs possession, and I know that police tenderly loves to search me at any opportunity... Doesn't it mean that I should stay as far as I can from crack and beg all my friends and relatives to do the same?
  - homonculus1 7y ago
    I think there comes a point where you have so little to lose and prison is so normalized in your social environment that the dignity reclaimed by defying the police state and possessing whatever you please outweighs the chance of getting caught. It's not so much a logical defect as it is a different set of premises: if prison looks like a constant threat, it stops being a deterrent and at that point you may as well have some semi-internal locus of control.
  - danso 7y ago
    You could say that for any crime or malady of society, that it's confusing to you why millions of fellow citizens have chosen something you've found easy and obvious to avoid yourself. That doesn't address or excuse why one variation is vastly disproportionately punished.
    - AlexTWithBeard 7y ago
      I understand your point, but it's not about "any crime", it's about a very specific variation of a crime. Imagine DUI having a much more severe punishment and zero tolerance limits if the driver was caught between 10pm and 11pm. Now, it's 10:30pm and you've just had half a pint of beer. You need to drive back home. What do you do? Heck, you wait half an hour! Will it decrease total DUI? No. But 10pm to 11pm will be the safest time in the streets. Poisoning your spouse now leads to a mandatory death penalty? Good. Now you'll just strangle her. A gang is defined as 5 people or more? Excellent. All robberies are now performed by strictly no more than 4.99 people. Crack is being cracked down upon? Fantastic. We'll smoke weed/tobacco/soap/whatever. When there is an alternative, not using it is just dumb.
  - papln 7y ago
    Yes, if I threaten to imprison you if any of your friends or family or neighbors commit a crime, I can press you into duty as an unfunded, undefended crimefighter. We can look to examples of the past of this strategy in action, in the glorious nations of East Germany and the USSR.

by nroets 7y ago

danso 7y ago

We've already had rule-driven frameworks: three strikes and mandatory minimums, the latter of which resulted in huge sentences for non-violent drug offenses – particularly those involving crack, a drug more prevalent in black communities, and for which the threshold to trigger a mandatory sentence was 1/100th that of powder cocaine: https://www.aclu.org/other/cracks-system-20-years-unjust-federal-crack-cocaine-law https://www.aclu.org/other/cracks-system-20-years-unjust-fed...

AlexTWithBeard 7y ago
That's something I never managed to understand: if I'm a black person, and I know that current laws will unfairly publish me for drugs possession, and I know that police tenderly loves to search me at any opportunity... Doesn't it mean that I should stay as far as I can from crack and beg all my friends and relatives to do the same?
- homonculus1 7y ago
  I think there comes a point where you have so little to lose and prison is so normalized in your social environment that the dignity reclaimed by defying the police state and possessing whatever you please outweighs the chance of getting caught. It's not so much a logical defect as it is a different set of premises: if prison looks like a constant threat, it stops being a deterrent and at that point you may as well have some semi-internal locus of control.
- danso 7y ago
  You could say that for any crime or malady of society, that it's confusing to you why millions of fellow citizens have chosen something you've found easy and obvious to avoid yourself. That doesn't address or excuse why one variation is vastly disproportionately punished.
  - AlexTWithBeard 7y ago
    I understand your point, but it's not about "any crime", it's about a very specific variation of a crime. Imagine DUI having a much more severe punishment and zero tolerance limits if the driver was caught between 10pm and 11pm. Now, it's 10:30pm and you've just had half a pint of beer. You need to drive back home. What do you do? Heck, you wait half an hour! Will it decrease total DUI? No. But 10pm to 11pm will be the safest time in the streets. Poisoning your spouse now leads to a mandatory death penalty? Good. Now you'll just strangle her. A gang is defined as 5 people or more? Excellent. All robberies are now performed by strictly no more than 4.99 people. Crack is being cracked down upon? Fantastic. We'll smoke weed/tobacco/soap/whatever. When there is an alternative, not using it is just dumb.
- papln 7y ago
  Yes, if I threaten to imprison you if any of your friends or family or neighbors commit a crime, I can press you into duty as an unfunded, undefended crimefighter. We can look to examples of the past of this strategy in action, in the glorious nations of East Germany and the USSR.