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Show HN: Minimal Reader for the ESV Bible, Written in Janet
- RickJWagner 7y agoI like the ESV API, hadn't seen that before. Thanks, author.
- pimlottc 7y agoI see a header with a search box and the rest of the page is blank. Chrome 78.0.3904.70 Console: (index):247 Uncaught (in promise) TypeError: Cannot read property 'length' of undefined at search ((index):247) search @ (index):247 async function (async) search @ (index):245 (anonymous) @ (index):130
- jonstaab 7y agoYep, looks like I got rate-limited. Good old HN hug of death. I've just added a caching layer, so maybe it'll recover soon. Edit: should be good now.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- nyxtom 7y agoYea the ESV API is really cool. Thanks for the share
- lytedev 7y agoThis is great! Hadn't heard of this API before. I was just tinkering with a small Bible cli in bash using time TSV-formatted Bible data, but now I think I'll just check this out!
- RandomTisk 7y agoIf I scroll up to/past Luke 21, it goes blank with "No results found". Firefox 70.0.1. I like the minimalist style though.
- qwerty456127 7y agoLooks nice yet I feel like reading the Bible or whatever alike in a single translation makes little sense. IMHO viewing the originals + all the possible translations for every word + a number of translations to a number of languages in parallel is a must if you want to know what was actually written there. G-d bless.
- steve19 7y agoA translation is basically offloading all that to a team of scholars. Other religious books may have been standardized so you can't compare different versions, but that does not diminish the versions studied today.
- ars 7y ago> A translation is basically offloading all that to a team of scholars. Those same scholars would say the same thing: You can not understand the original intent from a single translation. (For example some words have multiple meanings, and all the meanings are intended.) Translations have different purposes, some are intended for smooth reading, or poetic language, or literal direct translation (never mind if it's hard to understand), or easy comprehension. And ALL of them are valuable! If you have a specific need, pick the translation that matches your need. But, for study, to really understand the material you need more than one, and in particular you need notes and explanation.
- steve19 7y agoOf course, but no theologians are telling laypeople to learn Greek, ancient Hebrew, Aramaic and vulgar Latin before reading a translation in their first language! Or at least not since post counter reformation.
- jorangreef 7y ago"A translation is basically offloading all that to a team of scholars." Especially a brilliant translation like the ESV. For example, Peter J. Williams (https://www.crossway.org/authors/peter-j-williams/ https://www.crossway.org/authors/peter-j-williams/) is just one of the PHDs who worked on the ESV Translation Oversight Committee. I once listened to a talk Peter gave at St Helens' Bishopsgate (https://www.st-helens.org.uk/resources/talk/51892/audio/ https://www.st-helens.org.uk/resources/talk/51892/audio/) on how translating has improved his confidence in the textual reliability of the manuscripts. I've never heard someone speak so well before. It's true that reading more than one translation helps, but I find that even just reading a formal equivalence translation such as the ESV, together with a dynamic equivalence transalation such as the old NIV, will get you 98% of the way there, and there are commentaries to help with the rest. It would be a real shame to never read the Bible in your mother tongue, when so many translators have sacrificed so much to make that possible, simply because one feels it can't be understood unless "you read it in a 100 languages". I think the question then becomes, well, do I want to read and truly understand, am I open-minded or am I just filibustering?
- sdegutis 7y agoAwesome. Any chance it can have an option for using other translations? Big fan of RSVCE personally.
- swlkr 7y agoWhoa this is really cool. I've seen janet on HN a few times now! It's a pretty great language
- seiko988 7y agoI had this idea two days ago, but to do it with Douay-Rheims. Then I fiddled around and came to the conclusion that my laptop is too bright for heavy reading even with white text on black background. Maybe an OLED laptop would alleviate eye strain for long reading at night, can anyone confirm?
- all2 7y agoCan confirm. Since the first Galaxy, all Samsung Galaxy phones have had OLED screens. I frequently read in absolute dark and eye-strain is not an issue (especially with the red light filter).
- laurentoget 7y agoThe fact that there is an API to publish verse by verse the text of one book, i.e. a handful of megabytes uncompressed, is interesting. The fact that this book happens to be a book of which there is a copy in every hotel room makes it a bit paradoxical. The fact that this book is the scripture for a religion which considers usury a capital sin makes it the best example of artificial scarcity i can think of.
- dang 7y agoPlease avoid religious flamebait on HN. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- jonstaab 7y agoIn one sense, they're not copyrighting the Bible itself, just the years of scholarly and commercial work that was put into making the ESV. Paul (and Deuteronomy) says "Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain". On the other hand, it's hard to argue that Bible publishers' spammy newsletters and aggressive copyright protection amount to much more than Simony.
- smitty1e 7y agoI had never heard of this translation, tending KJV myself. The idea that people wish to be compensated for spiritual effort is perfectly capitalist. I may need to take a look. But if the tone of the ESV resembles the NIV, the ESV may be lacking bass in the mix for my taste. You just can't improve on Ecclesiastes in the KJV: "Consider the work of God: for who can make that straight, which he hath made crooked?" https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/ecc/7/13/s_666013 https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/ecc/7/13/s_666013
- jorangreef 7y agoEcclesiastes is powerful in any human language, and belongs to the whole world, every nation, tribe and tongue. It would be a mistake to make it the sole property and possession of the KJV: "Siehe an die Werke Gottes; denn wer kann das schlicht machen, was er krümmt?" "Aanmerk het werk Gods; want wie kan recht maken, dat Hij krom gemaakt heeft?" "Regarde l'oeuvre de Dieu: qui pourra redresser ce qu'il a courbé?"
- triangleman 7y agoReally responsive, smooth interface. Great work.
- paggle 7y agoI don’t have a problem with people finding comfort or something of value in religion, but also don’t think that a rationalist community like HN should assist in promulgating religion any further into society than it already is.
- veddox 7y ago"HN" isn't promulgating anything. Jonstaab has shown us a side project, which is a) written in an interesting new language and b) may be of use to the many religious people that are a part of our community.
- hombre_fatal 7y agoThe bible is an interesting, mysterious, historical phenomenon. You don't have to be religious to read it. I'm not religious and I'm currently on a plan to read it in Spanish in one year by my next birthday. Just for fun and to say I did it. I like this website because it lets you compare different bibles and translations side by side: https://www.bibliacatolica.com.br/la-biblia-de-jerusalen-vs-king-james-version/genesis/1/ https://www.bibliacatolica.com.br/la-biblia-de-jerusalen-vs-...
- ngcc_hk 7y agoIs this (janet) a lisp interpreter ?
- jboynyc 7y agoYou can find details on the language here: https://janet-lang.org/ https://janet-lang.org/
- chris_wot 7y agoI've always wanted a Bible without verse numbers.
- jeremymcanally 7y agoThey actually publish a few like that now (an ESV version included actually I think). It’s my favorite way to read it.
- DizzyDoo 7y agoIn case anyone is wondering what to google, they're called "Reader's Bibles".
- Breza 7y agoThere's a lot that gets in the way of reading most Bibles. This old Kickstarter laid out the problems nicely (not an endorsement, I don't own this version). https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/adamlewisgreene/bibliotheca https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/adamlewisgreene/bibliot...
- jamestomasino 7y agoVery nice. I love the ESV translation. If you're into minimal Bible versions and old-school protocols, here's my ESV Bible on gopher: gopher://gopher.black/1/bible
- ExtremisAndy 7y agoAhhh the simple TXT days of gopher. I always appreciated gopher and hate more wasn't done with it. Thank you for this!
- cylinder714 7y agoIf you're content with the KJV, John Walker of Autodesk fame has it available at https://www.fourmilab.ch/ https://www.fourmilab.ch/ under “Books on-line.” I'm not linking to it directly, because his site is a candy store that deserves exploring.
- alexellisuk 7y agoHow can I access that?
- alexellisuk 7y ago"curl gopher://gopher.black/1/bible/Jonah/jonah-1.txt" "echo -n /bible/Jonah/jonah-1.txt | nc gopher.black 70" Very cool ^
- ykevinator 7y agoIt's immoral to teach your kids anti-science truth or co-science truth. There is one truth, scientific truth, and you should pause before beginning the process of teaching your kid that there are optional, comfort based co-science truths. Having said that, it's neat reader.
- gwd 7y ago> It's immoral to teach your kids anti-science truth or co-science truth. You mean "co-science" truths such as... morality? Or to take it one step at a time: * You have proposed a moral precept. * By attempting to apply it to people who clearly disagree with it, you imply that this moral precept is an objective truth -- that like physics and math, it applies to everyone whether they like it or not (as opposed to personal preferences or conventions such as whether to drive on the right or left-hand side of the road) * But science itself does not deal in moral precepts. Therefore, the moral precept you propose would count as "co-science". * So if you teach your kids any morality, then you are violating the moral precept you propose.
- ubertaco 7y agoOne step further: the moral precept proposed violates itself, if it's ever applied, by virtue of being a moral precept (and thus being a "co-science" truth claim).
- camjohnson26 7y agoThere’s plenty of unsupported beliefs that the hacker news community pushes that can be just as dangerous and that come from an over reliance on science. Teaching religion is no different than teaching that the universe may be part of a simulation, or that extra terrestrials probably exist, or that AGI is a real problem that they should fear. Faith is anything you can’t directly validate and nobody has a perfectly rational basis for all their beliefs, it’s not possible.
- irrational 7y agoIts immoral not to teach your kids religious truth in addition to scientific truth, IMHO. At our dinner table we read the scriptures with the kids and have family prayer, but we also do stuff like watch videos of rocket launches and talk about various science topics.
- chooseaname 7y agoRefreshingly simple. Well done.
- camjohnson26 7y agoOne thing that bothers me about modern Christianity is that I don’t think Christian Bibles or worship songs should be copyrighted. I understand why they feel the need to protect their work but it seems like that work should be funded with donations and not by restricting how many verses of the Bible a person can copy at a time, which according to the license you included is what the ESV Bible requires. Cool project though, I like the idea of being able to read the Bible without accidentally pressing play on an audio version.
- flounders 7y agoI think a lot of Christians haven't thought about that. Translating the Bible takes a lot of work. The work on the ESV started in the early 1990s from what I could find on Wikipedia, so we're talking about 7-11 years of work before it was published. I don't know how well donations would cover those costs. So I think a lenient copyright would be fine such as it expires in 30 years at the most and it allows for copying whole chapters but perhaps not whole books. Even with current copyright restrictions the only people that are impacted are authors using lengthy direct quotes, but with allowing whole chapters to be included that shouldn't be an issue. I would be for a shorter copyright term, but it does take time for new translations to be adopted.
- twhitbeck 7y agoI've long had the dream of a bible app that functions like Google Photos. One scrollbar, top is Genesis, bottom is Revelation. I've given it some thought, but haven't written any code yet. @jonstaab is that something you'd be interested in collaborating on? Edit: fix typo in name
- jonstaab 7y agoThat wouldn't be too hard, though you'll have to take a different approach to loading the content than I did here. I made this project for myself, so I'd be unlikely to use much else for reading/quick reference, but if you find the xode helpful, you're welcome to dork it! You migh also check out: https://www.notion.so/About-Theographic-bb40cb93b1ac43bd98252abce225d530 https://www.notion.so/About-Theographic-bb40cb93b1ac43bd9825...
- mikmeh 7y agoSide bar with books and chapters would be nice too, like google photos months and years.
- whistlework 7y agoThe inerrant English bible is the KJV. The ESV and other versions based on the error-filled Vaticanus and Sinaiticus codexes are demonstrably not the word of God. Case in point: Mark 1:2 in the modern versions quote Isaiah when it was actually Malachi.
- alexellisuk 7y agoThank you for publishing this example, it looks great. I noticed that it works with Heroku, would you be open to trying it on OpenFaaS Cloud using the free Community Cluster? It should be easier to use than Heroku and you can encrypt your API keys using SealedSecrets too. Reach out? alex@openfaas.com https://github.com/openfaas/community-cluster/tree/master/docs https://github.com/openfaas/community-cluster/tree/master/do...
- alexellisuk 7y agoLooking at your Dockerfile, wouldn't a multi-stage build be more efficient? https://github.com/staab/esv/blob/master/Dockerfile https://github.com/staab/esv/blob/master/Dockerfile https://docs.docker.com/develop/develop-images/multistage-build/ https://docs.docker.com/develop/develop-images/multistage-bu...
- ipstone2014 7y agoawesome! I used to use emacs with an api key to read ESV, this is nice.