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> If someone 'called me out' on a 'violation' of this document, I'm not sure how I'd respond. Probably with laughter? I honestly don't know, perhaps I'm just in

> If someone 'called me out' on a 'violation' of this document, I'm not sure how I'd respond. Probably with laughter? I honestly don't know, perhaps I'm just in a bubble. Let's say, hypothetically, because this is neither you nor me, that I wrote something like "Were you paying attention in CS100?" to a dumb mistake in your pull request. We all slip sometimes, so generally these shouldn't be big deals. Quick fix and move on. You said to me: "Hey, in your last code review you openly insulted my competence by saying '______'. Please don't do that." I responded: "No, you deserved that for the type of mistake you made." I know 1-2 developers personally who would genuinely believe that. I've encountered far more here and on Reddit that would as well. I think the real versions of us would both agree that the hypothetical me is being a jerk. Having a guideline that says "Don't criticize the person" gives you a way to take this up your managerial chain with a specific problem, as opposed to a general statement of "munchbunny was being a jerk." While you might not need this in order to manage the situation, I know of several fresh college grads who have not yet learned the communication and political skills to manage this, and so having a document spelling it out is helpful for both teaching and enforcement, even if the line items are not explicitly rules.

bonoboTP 7y ago
So managers are supposed to be part time kindergarten nannies now? Is this really something that happens to an extent where educated adults cannot resolve such issues among themselves? This is again a situation that's just hard for me to imagine, from both sides.
- munchbunny 7y ago
  > So managers are supposed to be part time kindergarten nannies now? If their employees act like children, then yes. And I'm pretty sure we can all come up with examples of adults acting like children.
- potta_coffee 7y ago
  In my management experience, I've spent much more time dealing with people's stupid, childish bullshit than doing "real" work.
  - munchbunny 7y ago
    That's in my management experience as well. You don't believe it's a real thing until it happens, and then you're still left wondering, "Seriously, am I really dealing with this shit?"
- geofft 7y ago
  Kindergarten nannies generally don't have the talent for teaching people how to not be jerks - they just put the jerks in timeout. Some eventually grow out of it. Some eventually get medication and/or therapy that addresses the issue. Some eventually respond to a lack of environmental stressors when they move out of their parents' house. And some simply stay that way. If you've hired someone in the latter category, yes, delivering business value requires you to deal with it. Firing them is an option, if that's really net positive for business value; sometimes it isn't. Seeing if you have the knack for teaching them is another, and likely highly profitable if you can do it. Handing down rigid rules is yet another option - not great, but quick and usually effective.
- icelancer 7y ago
  When the two adults are a man and a woman, yes, the company gets pretty scared pretty fast at the implications. Hence the rules.

bonoboTP 7y ago

So managers are supposed to be part time kindergarten nannies now? Is this really something that happens to an extent where educated adults cannot resolve such issues among themselves? This is again a situation that's just hard for me to imagine, from both sides.

munchbunny 7y ago
> So managers are supposed to be part time kindergarten nannies now? If their employees act like children, then yes. And I'm pretty sure we can all come up with examples of adults acting like children.
potta_coffee 7y ago
In my management experience, I've spent much more time dealing with people's stupid, childish bullshit than doing "real" work.
- munchbunny 7y ago
  That's in my management experience as well. You don't believe it's a real thing until it happens, and then you're still left wondering, "Seriously, am I really dealing with this shit?"
geofft 7y ago
Kindergarten nannies generally don't have the talent for teaching people how to not be jerks - they just put the jerks in timeout. Some eventually grow out of it. Some eventually get medication and/or therapy that addresses the issue. Some eventually respond to a lack of environmental stressors when they move out of their parents' house. And some simply stay that way. If you've hired someone in the latter category, yes, delivering business value requires you to deal with it. Firing them is an option, if that's really net positive for business value; sometimes it isn't. Seeing if you have the knack for teaching them is another, and likely highly profitable if you can do it. Handing down rigid rules is yet another option - not great, but quick and usually effective.
icelancer 7y ago
When the two adults are a man and a woman, yes, the company gets pretty scared pretty fast at the implications. Hence the rules.