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This is really interesting, I think this is how the general population views social justice and other activist issues actually. It seems to be a similarly struc

This is really interesting, I think this is how the general population views social justice and other activist issues actually. It seems to be a similarly structured setup where we implement a byzantine list of things that people of privilege are supposed to keep track up, starting out as a list of good intentions that then spirals out of control. Afterwards nobody is real with anyone anymore and we are simply left with a system where most social interaction feels like a robotic scripted attempt to follow the rules of privilege.

matheusmoreira 7y ago
The problem is they come up with all these rules for others to follow. They don't seem to realize the rules also apply to them. It's perfectly fine to call for the exclusion of a man because of a controversial tweet but when protected groups do the same thing and people try to hold them accountable they get laughed at as if it was absurd and wrong to even try.
hogFeast 7y ago
This should only apply for large companies. Only in large companies do you end up employing large numbers of idiots. And only then do you need the rules that a minority go crazy with. In my experience, the cure is usually worse than the disease. Give someone a rulebook that they can use to justify the awful inclinations of their personality, and they will spend 99% of their energy doing this. Small companies manage this better in my experience - outside of the guy who came from LARGE TECH COMPANY and spends all day writing lists and telling people how they do things at LARGE TECH COMPANY - because they will get rid of someone who is being disruptive rather than try to move them somewhere else. HR in large companies tends to be far softer. Btw, my point is that all this applies to social activism too. We need rules because eventually someone will do something dumb. The rules will get taken too far. And that small minority ends up making almost everyone else unhappy. Incidentally: there is a probably a parallel with this forum. Of any internet forum, this place is probably the most humourless and exacting when it comes to people quoting rules (often by number) to each other. The monkeys will take over the zoo 100% of the time in these cases. I have actually even had interviews like this. I remember one particularly funny one was for a front-end role where I was witness to a lecture from a "senior dev" on the topic of: why X technology/pattern is "wrong"?
erikpukinskis 7y ago
I think you’ve fallen prey to propaganda that paints proponents of social justice in a certain way. The social justice warriors I know _are_ part of the general population, and mind their business, and work hard every day to help people in need. I am always disappointed when I see people write off the entire cause of social justice as pointless meddling. You’ve been duped if you think that’s all that’s going on. The “general population” you aligned yourself with is chock full of SJWs who you have had only positive interactions with. But you would never know it... Like trans people who pass... how would you ever realize they exist? And yet there they are.
- porknubbins 7y ago
  While I’m in agreement with a lot of their causes, I have to say all SJW types I’ve met have been an very particular slice of the population, almost all educated, urban dwelling millennial age people. As a contract worker I see lots of job environments and I kind of enjoy the less upscale more down to earth (ironically more racially diverse) jobs where you don’t have to remember whose pronouns are “they” this week. I can’t even remember what pronouns are supposed to be modified so I messed up last time saying mine were “he/his”.
  - fcarraldo 7y ago
    After saying your preferred pronouns are “he/him/his”, would you feel offended if people intentionally ignored that and instead referred to you as “her”? Dismissing an entire class of people with pithy comments about “they/their” pronouns might seem fine to you, but it sure as hell doesn’t feel good when you’re on the other side of it. Be respectful to all people and not just the ones that don’t inconvenience you.
    - matheusmoreira 7y ago
      > Be respectful to all people and not just the ones that don’t inconvenience you. This is a good ideal to strive for. However, people should not be getting fired, banned, excluded, ostracized or otherwise sanctioned over this. For example: https://github.com/joyent/libuv/pull/1015 https://github.com/joyent/libuv/pull/1015 https://www.joyent.com/blog/the-power-of-a-pronoun https://www.joyent.com/blog/the-power-of-a-pronoun What happened in that pull request is completely disproportionate. These reactions and punishments will cause chilling effects. People are watching.

matheusmoreira 7y ago

The problem is they come up with all these rules for others to follow. They don't seem to realize the rules also apply to them. It's perfectly fine to call for the exclusion of a man because of a controversial tweet but when protected groups do the same thing and people try to hold them accountable they get laughed at as if it was absurd and wrong to even try.

hogFeast 7y ago

This should only apply for large companies. Only in large companies do you end up employing large numbers of idiots. And only then do you need the rules that a minority go crazy with. In my experience, the cure is usually worse than the disease. Give someone a rulebook that they can use to justify the awful inclinations of their personality, and they will spend 99% of their energy doing this. Small companies manage this better in my experience - outside of the guy who came from LARGE TECH COMPANY and spends all day writing lists and telling people how they do things at LARGE TECH COMPANY - because they will get rid of someone who is being disruptive rather than try to move them somewhere else. HR in large companies tends to be far softer. Btw, my point is that all this applies to social activism too. We need rules because eventually someone will do something dumb. The rules will get taken too far. And that small minority ends up making almost everyone else unhappy. Incidentally: there is a probably a parallel with this forum. Of any internet forum, this place is probably the most humourless and exacting when it comes to people quoting rules (often by number) to each other. The monkeys will take over the zoo 100% of the time in these cases. I have actually even had interviews like this. I remember one particularly funny one was for a front-end role where I was witness to a lecture from a "senior dev" on the topic of: why X technology/pattern is "wrong"?

erikpukinskis 7y ago

I think you’ve fallen prey to propaganda that paints proponents of social justice in a certain way. The social justice warriors I know _are_ part of the general population, and mind their business, and work hard every day to help people in need. I am always disappointed when I see people write off the entire cause of social justice as pointless meddling. You’ve been duped if you think that’s all that’s going on. The “general population” you aligned yourself with is chock full of SJWs who you have had only positive interactions with. But you would never know it... Like trans people who pass... how would you ever realize they exist? And yet there they are.

porknubbins 7y ago
While I’m in agreement with a lot of their causes, I have to say all SJW types I’ve met have been an very particular slice of the population, almost all educated, urban dwelling millennial age people. As a contract worker I see lots of job environments and I kind of enjoy the less upscale more down to earth (ironically more racially diverse) jobs where you don’t have to remember whose pronouns are “they” this week. I can’t even remember what pronouns are supposed to be modified so I messed up last time saying mine were “he/his”.
- fcarraldo 7y ago
  After saying your preferred pronouns are “he/him/his”, would you feel offended if people intentionally ignored that and instead referred to you as “her”? Dismissing an entire class of people with pithy comments about “they/their” pronouns might seem fine to you, but it sure as hell doesn’t feel good when you’re on the other side of it. Be respectful to all people and not just the ones that don’t inconvenience you.
  - matheusmoreira 7y ago
    > Be respectful to all people and not just the ones that don’t inconvenience you. This is a good ideal to strive for. However, people should not be getting fired, banned, excluded, ostracized or otherwise sanctioned over this. For example: https://github.com/joyent/libuv/pull/1015 https://github.com/joyent/libuv/pull/1015 https://www.joyent.com/blog/the-power-of-a-pronoun https://www.joyent.com/blog/the-power-of-a-pronoun What happened in that pull request is completely disproportionate. These reactions and punishments will cause chilling effects. People are watching.