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Driverless Tesla coasting along mall parking lot causes confusion
- jerkstate 7y agoI would assume, like in the USA, the person who hit the "summon" button would be liable for anything the car did.
- brenden2 7y agoWhat if the phone erroneously detected an action? AKA a pocket summon. Is the phone manufacturer liable in that case?
- sslayer 7y agoWould the car endlessly follow the person around the mall? Is there a timeout? Seems like after x minutes it should self park and update the app.
- p2t2p 7y agoThe time out is about 500 miles / speed of crawling ;-)
- hughes 7y agoTo get a sense of what would be required to "pocket summon" the car, you'd have to: - pocket unlock phone - pocket open tesla app - pocket scroll down to Summon - pocket click Summon - pocket select "Smart Summon" from within the Summon screen - pocket click the target button on the map - pocket hold down the "come to me" button continuously All this while being within 200ft of the car.
- gruez 7y ago"pocket summon" probably isn't the most likely scenario. A more likely one is using pocket summon while in the rain, and water on the touchscreen causing the summon button to remain pressed even after the finger's lifted.
- rosybox 7y agoThis can totally happen. You might have already had the summon view up and targeted already, ready to leave, when your friend mentions something to you and you just stick your phone in your pocket.
- hughes 7y agoThat's actually a good point. Even if the tesla app reverts to its default state when the phone is locked, one might pocket their unlocked phone while "come to me" is shown.
- Koremat6666 7y agoI was excited for this feature after playing Batman Arkham Knight game. Batman can summon is Batmobile while jumping over the rooftops and jump right into the drivers seat.
- iamaelephant 7y agoIt's a one in a million chance. However there are now millions of Tesla/phone pairs on the market so one in a million translates to inevitability.
- dkonofalski 7y agoThis is not possible. You have to hold down the summon button in order for this to work.
- naringas 7y agowhat if the summoned car gets hit by another car (in such a way the it is not the tesla's fault)? what if somebody throws themselves into the tesla?
- lostlogin 7y agoOr hops in...
- jerkstate 7y agoi'm not a lawyer, but my guess for both questions, the driver's inability to provide an eyewitness account would probably heavily bias towards their fault. Kind of like if you were driving your car with your eyes closed.
- Rebelgecko 7y agoI imagine that the footage from the car's built-in cameras could take the place of an eyewitness account
- skratchpixels 7y agoThe new Tesla cars have 8 cameras. You can download the video to a USB drive.
- RandallBrown 7y agoWhat if I'm driving a car and get hit by another car (in such a way that it is not my fault)? I imagine it would be the same.
- naringas 7y agoexcept that you're nowhere near your car
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
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- abtinf 7y agoIt is not at all obvious that would the case in the US.
- Someone1234 7y agoBut as the article said, that liability may not be covered by that person's vehicle insurance in British Columbia > In the recent incident in Richmond, thankfully, there was no accident. Had an accident occurred, the vehicle owner's insurance may not have provided coverage. I don't think anyone disagrees that the vehicle's driver is liable (regardless of physically being in the vehicle or using summon). The issue here seems to be if that is legal at all and if it is legal if insurance would cover that liability. Plus what happens if a third party activates summon, for example a toddler? Is the toddler now legal liable for any accidents? Is the owner of the car? Is the child's parent/guardian (even if they weren't physically there)? Lots of interesting legal edge cases to explore.
- p2t2p 7y ago> regardless of physically being in the vehicle or using summon) Imagine you're driving along the road, see a pedestrian crossing and see a pedestrian on it. You hit the brake but brake doesn't work, because of the manufacturing flaw (later one they will issue a recall but not just yet) so you hit someone. I think it is pretty obvious that manufacturer of the car is liable in this case. Although you still get into trouble, all the investigation, courts, etc. > Plus what happens if a third party activates summon, for example a toddler. In Australia, in NSW, you're responsible if you didn't take the precautions necessary and someone, who's not supposed to drive your car, gains access to it. Like if you left your windows/doors open and/or car keys in the car or engine running and someone without licenses got inside and drove it, there is a fine.
- deckar01 7y agoDuring the "Autonomy Day" announcements, I believe Elon Musk said he assumed the company would be liable for any damage caused by driverless vehicles. When the cause of an accident is a manufacturing flaw, the manufacturer is liable. Tesla has been sued several times regarding autopilot, but in all those cases they argued that the product wasn't flawed, it was just missing features that a human driver was expected to provide. I'm not sure what Tesla's expectations of their customers are for this feature. Maybe the owner had to agree to use it only when in line of site and stop it if it was not operating safely.
- jfoster 7y agoI think all of the autonomy features Tesla have shipped have requested that the driver monitors them. There's a distinction to be made between this and the eventual autonomy whereby they don't intend on the driver being able to override the car (aka. Robotaxis) when the responsibility would shift from driver to company.
- deckar01 7y agoThis feature is a little different though. You have no way of immediately gaining control of the vehicle. Your only possible action is top summoning, which may not stop the chain of events that lead to an accident. They have argued that people sitting in a vehicle should be required to anticipate and prevent accidents, but it seems like a stretch to expect the same of someone standing at a curb with nothing but an off switch.
- williesleg 7y agoWhat a bonehead, you control the car from your phone app. You need to be within viewing distance of your car. You press the button on the app. When you release it, the car stops immediately. This bonehead clearly wasn't doing that. More FUD on the inevitable future. Keep it up, you horse and buggy lovers.
- dpcx 7y agoDoesn't look like, from the admittedly short video, that there's too much confusion from the people around it, other than the lady near the stop sign at the end, and that seems only because she's trying to decide if the car is going to stop for her.
- ASalazarMX 7y agoAnd that was likely the best short clip that would somehow fit the headline. The car is so slow and timid, it looks more confused than the people walking by.
- dave_b 7y agoStill, the car’s seeming confusion doesn’t inspire confidence in the readiness of this feature.
- foxyv 7y agoMy question is, we already have remote control vehicles. Do we not have any laws for full sized RC cars? Would it apply in this case?
- xwdv 7y agoThere is absolutely zero confusion in this video.
- retrovm 7y agoAre you joking? The car is driving down the wrong side of the road.
- xwdv 7y agoThere’s no incoming cars.
- skookum 7y agoThe video was shot in the Richmond Center parking lot [1]. That Tesla is (unfortunately) displaying above-average driving skill for that location. [1] https://www.google.com/maps/@49.1646475,-123.1373743,18z https://www.google.com/maps/@49.1646475,-123.1373743,18z
- deckar01 7y agoThe car stopped for a pedestrian who was hesitating to cross. I have seen human drivers in my area do much worse than this on average.
- kerng 7y agoThe biggest problem and confusion just is that there isn't a driver. Noone challenges a human for going on a joyride. The fact that there is no driver visible might be a bigger challenge for self driving vehicles and its acceptance.
- xwdv 7y agoTinted windows will solve that.
- ASalazarMX 7y agoThey need an inflatable autopilot.
- mrkstu 7y agoHere comes Johnny Cab: https://talkingpointz.com/johnny-cab/ https://talkingpointz.com/johnny-cab/
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- colechristensen 7y ago“Driverless” is going to see a fast and final end when a small child gets killed by one of these robots and the owner, manufacturer, and every insurance company within throwing distance gets a billion dollar lawsuit judgement. There is much hubris going around about AI and machine vision with business people and grad students taking lives into their hands and not seriously handling the responsibility.
- chewz 7y agoMove fast and kill people?
- paul7986 7y agoKill people ..learn from their deaths...deploy ..kill more people and learn from their deaths..deploy the latest...rinse and repeat until maybe decades later these robots are safer then human drivers. Progress is going to be a killer!
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- sadahtay 7y agoI'm pretty sure they're already safer than human drivers.
- colechristensen 7y agoWhat makes you sure?
- dkonofalski 7y agoNo one is going to get a billion dollar judgement over a death from a self-driving car. If you think every tech company working on a driverless system doesn't have an entire legal team behind them waiving away liabilities then I have a bridge to sell you.
- loopz 7y ago95% Leaf 97% Beachball 98% Bird 99% Stork 99.5% 3-year old human, cue braking action in 20 seconds
- savrajsingh 7y agoIt seems the author, Karin, may be summoning his/her own car so they have something to write about. :)
- ASalazarMX 7y agoDirect link of the confusion https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnioHfg1xbQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnioHfg1xbQ
- droithomme 7y ago> Vancouver lawyer Paul Doroshenko said there are no laws against what he saw in the video I am absolutely positive that it is illegal to drive on the wrong side of the road in Canada. Was this really the only legal expert they could find?
- LeoPanthera 7y agoIs that still illegal on private property/land, which I assume a mall car park is?
- droithomme 7y agoOk, I bet you are right and that was his argument. On private property you can drive however you like. I retract my claim. Thanks.
- drewg123 7y agoI have a Tesla, and summon has always scared me. I've never used it. I never plan to use this "smart summon" either. The only thing that has made me think about enabling summon is that in order to be able to remotely open your garage door via the Tesla app, using the transceiver in the car, you must have Summon enabled. Being able to open the garage door from thousands of miles away would be quite handy in case a family member was locked out. But I still haven't done it.
- kemiller 7y agoIt’s a great feature for those of us with older houses and narrow driveways. If anything it is too cautious.