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I've wondered if we could crowdsource synthetic fuel production to compete with fossil fuels. It would be very attractive to drive the oil companies out of bus

by abraae 7y ago

I've wondered if we could crowdsource synthetic fuel production to compete with fossil fuels. It would be very attractive to drive the oil companies out of business with a frontal assault. Of course it would depend on having enough consumers prepared to pay more for their fuel.

ericvanular 7y ago
These are fantastic discussions. Would love to have both of you posting and discussing on the platform if you're willing. You can extend your positive impact even further!
mikepurvis 7y ago
It's a bit more indirect, but in the vein of "consumers prepared to pay more", see companies like Bullfrog Power: https://www.bullfrogpower.com https://www.bullfrogpower.com Basically, you don't actually buy power from Bullfrog— you continue to pay your existing utility bill, and then pay a surcharge to Bullfrog, who invest it in green energy projects on your behalf. They're periodically audited to demonstrate that the money is doing what they say it is, but at its core it's a marketing company selling feelings, not an energy company selling energy: https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/david-dodge/bullfrog-power-canada_b_3599233.html https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/david-dodge/bullfrog-power-can... But the point is, they have loads of customers, so there's definitely an appetite out there for paying more to get reduced-guilt energy.
semi-extrinsic 7y ago
I hate to be the rain on parade guy, but... you are talking about chemical engineering that will involve working with gases like hydrogen, carbon monoxide and methane at a large scale. You're simply not going to be allowed to even purchase the raw materials you need in the quantities you need unless you are running a proper chemical company, complete with all the certifications and HSE work. The investment cost is huge, and requires a lot of specialized engineering plus the purchase of a suitable industrial estate that is large and has a wide safety zone against all surrounding neighbours. If you're serious about this, I'd recommend reading Max Gergel's book "Excuse me sir, would you like to buy a kilo of isopropyl bromide", and then imagine what you would need to go through in order to start an operation 10x to 100x bigger than Gergel's in todays regulatory regime.
- ericvanular 7y ago
  It's understandable that you'd need some oversight to acquire the materials. I wonder if it would be feasible to band together as a unified front to encourage an organization who is able to make this happen push towards reality
- cjbenedikt 7y ago
  I beg to differ. Based on IPs from Columbia Uni, NYC, we are a startup working on technology to produce green hydrogen from sea water and renewable energy. We received a NYSERDA validation grant and are on our way to pilot in the Port of Rotterdam in 2020. We are currently looking into the possibility to crowdfund some of our work.
  - ericvanular 7y ago
    Love the sound of this. If you'd like to build your audience, we would be happy to follow your journey at Collective.Energy
  - semi-extrinsic 7y ago
    Cool stuff! Is it different from electrolysis? The way I see it, you're somewhat in a different ballgame since you're not buying explosive/toxic gases from anyone else. You're producing an explosive gas from seawater. Still, I imagine you need some pretty big safety zones if you're operating at scale, no?
    - ericvanular 7y ago
      Hey semi-extrinsic, cjbenedikt posted more about this on the platform. If you'd like, you can engage them there and drive the conversation forward!
- abraae 7y ago
  Ha, yeah, I wasn't meaning to crowdsource a petrochemical company in my back yard. Not my forte, not that of anyone I know. I'd like to see environmentally aware consumers voluntarily subsidising a synthetic fuel company that would compete with the fossil fuel companies. If enough people would chip in, perhaps it could be possible to put pressure on the margins of the fossil fuel companies and drive them out of business.

by abraae 7y ago

ericvanular 7y ago

These are fantastic discussions. Would love to have both of you posting and discussing on the platform if you're willing. You can extend your positive impact even further!

mikepurvis 7y ago

It's a bit more indirect, but in the vein of "consumers prepared to pay more", see companies like Bullfrog Power: https://www.bullfrogpower.com https://www.bullfrogpower.com Basically, you don't actually buy power from Bullfrog— you continue to pay your existing utility bill, and then pay a surcharge to Bullfrog, who invest it in green energy projects on your behalf. They're periodically audited to demonstrate that the money is doing what they say it is, but at its core it's a marketing company selling feelings, not an energy company selling energy: https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/david-dodge/bullfrog-power-canada_b_3599233.html https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/david-dodge/bullfrog-power-can... But the point is, they have loads of customers, so there's definitely an appetite out there for paying more to get reduced-guilt energy.

semi-extrinsic 7y ago

I hate to be the rain on parade guy, but... you are talking about chemical engineering that will involve working with gases like hydrogen, carbon monoxide and methane at a large scale. You're simply not going to be allowed to even purchase the raw materials you need in the quantities you need unless you are running a proper chemical company, complete with all the certifications and HSE work. The investment cost is huge, and requires a lot of specialized engineering plus the purchase of a suitable industrial estate that is large and has a wide safety zone against all surrounding neighbours. If you're serious about this, I'd recommend reading Max Gergel's book "Excuse me sir, would you like to buy a kilo of isopropyl bromide", and then imagine what you would need to go through in order to start an operation 10x to 100x bigger than Gergel's in todays regulatory regime.

ericvanular 7y ago
It's understandable that you'd need some oversight to acquire the materials. I wonder if it would be feasible to band together as a unified front to encourage an organization who is able to make this happen push towards reality
cjbenedikt 7y ago
I beg to differ. Based on IPs from Columbia Uni, NYC, we are a startup working on technology to produce green hydrogen from sea water and renewable energy. We received a NYSERDA validation grant and are on our way to pilot in the Port of Rotterdam in 2020. We are currently looking into the possibility to crowdfund some of our work.
- ericvanular 7y ago
  Love the sound of this. If you'd like to build your audience, we would be happy to follow your journey at Collective.Energy
- semi-extrinsic 7y ago
  Cool stuff! Is it different from electrolysis? The way I see it, you're somewhat in a different ballgame since you're not buying explosive/toxic gases from anyone else. You're producing an explosive gas from seawater. Still, I imagine you need some pretty big safety zones if you're operating at scale, no?
  - ericvanular 7y ago
    Hey semi-extrinsic, cjbenedikt posted more about this on the platform. If you'd like, you can engage them there and drive the conversation forward!
abraae 7y ago
Ha, yeah, I wasn't meaning to crowdsource a petrochemical company in my back yard. Not my forte, not that of anyone I know. I'd like to see environmentally aware consumers voluntarily subsidising a synthetic fuel company that would compete with the fossil fuel companies. If enough people would chip in, perhaps it could be possible to put pressure on the margins of the fossil fuel companies and drive them out of business.