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For one thing, the Bible says "You'll know them by their fruits," and although the Catholic Church has produced a lot of sinners, they're about on par with othe

For one thing, the Bible says "You'll know them by their fruits," and although the Catholic Church has produced a lot of sinners, they're about on par with other denominations and other religions, philosophies, and non-religions, whereas the number of Saints who practiced heroic virtue is far greater in Catholicism than any other form of religion or lack. There's also countless medically and scientifically verified miracles. They're still happening today, and it's not just "oh trust me it was a miracle", but actual medical professionals testify under oath that such-and-such truly happened and that it isn't possible under any known laws of physics or medicine etc. And then there's just the fact that it's the only philosophy that truly lines up with real life experience. Every other form of Christianity will eventually say "it just is what it is, you just have to have faith." But this is the only one that fully satisfied my intellectual mind without having to give up intellectual integrity. I also found out about Fulton Sheen this year, and he understood this the same way. He's extremely underrated and should be read and listened to by anyone who considers themselves intellectual. And finally, it's the only philosophy or religion that has ever fixed me. All others failed.

authoritarian 7y ago
> the number of Saints who practiced heroic virtue is far greater in Catholicism than any other form of religion or lack Such as Mother Teresa, who allowed people to die in horrible conditions in hospices where patients were given insufficient food and no painkillers because "suffering makes you closer to god," and then went to a costly, fancy facility and took painkillers herself when it was her time to die. >There's also countless medically and scientifically verified miracles. This is absurd. Just because something happens that can't be fully explained by science with current knowledge and technology does not make it a religious miracle. Also, pretending that is true, how would that be evidence of you belonging to a denomination that is "real Christianity." Perhaps it was one of the other countless religions that try to falsely attribute things they don't understand to 'miracles' >it's the only philosophy that truly lines up with real life experience Satanism truly lines up with my real life experiences. Is that evidence that that is the true or real religion? >But this is the only one that fully satisfied my intellectual mind without having to give up intellectual integrity. You just said that you believe that there are medically and scientifically verified miracles, so I'd say this statement is false. How do you feel about dinosaurs? How old do you think the earth is? >And finally, it's the only philosophy or religion that has ever fixed me This I can understand and respect. IMO the rest of what you said is mostly brainwashing/indoctrination.
- not2b 7y ago
  There's a lot wrong with Catholicism, but it doesn't oppose evolution (in fact, several recent popes have declared that evolution is proven fact) and it doesn't teach young-earth creationism, though it seems many Catholics are confused on this matter about what their own church teaches.
  - dragonwriter 7y ago
    > though it seems many Catholics are confused on this matter about what their own church teaches. It doesn't help that groups aligned with politically activist right-wing Protestant Evangelical/Fundamentalist groups are instrumental in funding and shaping much Catholic media (notably, EWTN) in the US, which often results in political propaganda supporting policies pushed by the “Christian” Right being portrayed in Catholic media as if it were accepted Catholic doctrine despite often not being (or even conflicting with) the doctrine of the Church.
    - sdegutis 7y ago
      Interesting. My wife and I would like to know more about this. She listens to EWTN a lot, and I can’t stand them but for different reasons than you mentioned. Which doctrines and urgencies and propaganda do you mean?
- sdegutis 7y ago
  God can suspend the laws of physics which he designed in the first place. And it was a Catholic priest who first proposed the Big Bang theory, which I think is perfectly reasonable to believe, and fully compatible with our religion, which only says that Adam and Eve were literal people who we are all descended from, but not that the 7-day creation was literal.
threatofrain 7y ago
> And finally, it's the only philosophy or religion that has ever fixed me. All others failed. > There's also countless medically and scientifically verified miracles. They're still happening today, and it's not just "oh trust me it was a miracle", but actual medical professionals testify under oath that such-and-such truly happened and that it isn't possible under any known laws of physics or medicine etc. But in a broader discussion about astrology, these are the kinds of claims made by all sorts of groups. As for the works of Christian bodies throughout history, well, the world has seen it and it is what it is. It may be good, it may be bad, or somewhere in-between, but it isn't morally beautiful enough as a sole justification to adopt a position of faith on these matters. But none of this really talks about why you know the real Christian groups from the lesser ones. That's the kind of talk any Christian group would make against another.
- sdegutis 7y ago
  The only way someone can be Protestant is to be ignorant of history. If you look at the writings of the saints for the past 1900-2000 years, they all believed the doctrines of the Catholic Church, and they were saints because they lived those teachings and received her Sacraments which are only present in the Catholic Church. All forms of Protestants started off in the 1500s by simply guessing and assuming that the Catholic Church had strayed from the truth, and then guessing what that truth might be. There is no credible basis for any of their teachings at all. They started off on the logical fallacy that because there are evildoers in the church and because the church seems to condone their behavior, the church must have fallen from grace and erred in her doctrine. No, the Church’s members were corrupt but her teachings and Sacraments remained intact. And she was healed of her gangrene and errors by saints like Frances de Sales and Ignatius of Loyola, who explained the truth and converted hundreds of thousands of Protestants back to Catholicism even during their lifetimes, let alone afterward.
  - lucozade 7y ago
    > The only way someone can be Protestant is to be ignorant of history Or being born into it. Kinda like the vast majority of Roman Catholics in fact. > and they were saints because they lived those teachings They were saints because they passed the Roman Catholic saint tests. The Church is very specific about that. > All forms of Protestants started off in the 1500s Of the ones that called themselves Protestant, you may be correct. Of the groups that the Church labelled heretical and got quite pointy with, they've been around a lot longer. > They started off on the logical fallacy... Nah, most of the Protestants started off having problems with the idolatry and the excess of mammon. > There is no credible basis for any of their teachings at all The Bible is a bit picky about idolatry and excess of mammon. I guess it's each to their own as to what you consider a credible teaching. > And she was healed of her gangrene and errors Well, that's good to know. Hate to think there's any systemic issues with the modern Church.
dragonwriter 7y ago
> There's also countless medically and scientifically verified miracles. Speaking as a Catholic, no there aren't. There are simply alleged miracles that have not been scientifically explained. Miracles aren't scientifically verifiable, and even a lack of current explanation is necessarily potentially a transitory state.
- sdegutis 7y ago
  Right, I short-handed it. If an event occurred that is quite contrary to our thorough understanding of a situation, e.g. a sudden disappearance of a fatal and currently-incurable illness along with all traces of it, and this happens directly after the invocation of the intercession of a Saint in heaven, then it is theoretically possible that it's a coincidence and that we just don't understand further science behind it. But only someone who doesn't want to believe in the obvious and strong conclusion that it was a miracle is going to be able to. God designed it this way, so that it's not absolutely provable, but pretty much obvious to anyone with a good heart. I add this last clause because as Venerable Fulton Sheen said, the atheist half-believes in God by night, and nobody refuses to be Catholic except if its incompatible with the life they would rather live. Those who don't want to believe the truth don't have to, for "God sends upon them a strong delusion to make them believe what is false."

authoritarian 7y ago

> the number of Saints who practiced heroic virtue is far greater in Catholicism than any other form of religion or lack Such as Mother Teresa, who allowed people to die in horrible conditions in hospices where patients were given insufficient food and no painkillers because "suffering makes you closer to god," and then went to a costly, fancy facility and took painkillers herself when it was her time to die. >There's also countless medically and scientifically verified miracles. This is absurd. Just because something happens that can't be fully explained by science with current knowledge and technology does not make it a religious miracle. Also, pretending that is true, how would that be evidence of you belonging to a denomination that is "real Christianity." Perhaps it was one of the other countless religions that try to falsely attribute things they don't understand to 'miracles' >it's the only philosophy that truly lines up with real life experience Satanism truly lines up with my real life experiences. Is that evidence that that is the true or real religion? >But this is the only one that fully satisfied my intellectual mind without having to give up intellectual integrity. You just said that you believe that there are medically and scientifically verified miracles, so I'd say this statement is false. How do you feel about dinosaurs? How old do you think the earth is? >And finally, it's the only philosophy or religion that has ever fixed me This I can understand and respect. IMO the rest of what you said is mostly brainwashing/indoctrination.

not2b 7y ago
There's a lot wrong with Catholicism, but it doesn't oppose evolution (in fact, several recent popes have declared that evolution is proven fact) and it doesn't teach young-earth creationism, though it seems many Catholics are confused on this matter about what their own church teaches.
- dragonwriter 7y ago
  > though it seems many Catholics are confused on this matter about what their own church teaches. It doesn't help that groups aligned with politically activist right-wing Protestant Evangelical/Fundamentalist groups are instrumental in funding and shaping much Catholic media (notably, EWTN) in the US, which often results in political propaganda supporting policies pushed by the “Christian” Right being portrayed in Catholic media as if it were accepted Catholic doctrine despite often not being (or even conflicting with) the doctrine of the Church.
  - sdegutis 7y ago
    Interesting. My wife and I would like to know more about this. She listens to EWTN a lot, and I can’t stand them but for different reasons than you mentioned. Which doctrines and urgencies and propaganda do you mean?
sdegutis 7y ago
God can suspend the laws of physics which he designed in the first place. And it was a Catholic priest who first proposed the Big Bang theory, which I think is perfectly reasonable to believe, and fully compatible with our religion, which only says that Adam and Eve were literal people who we are all descended from, but not that the 7-day creation was literal.

threatofrain 7y ago

> And finally, it's the only philosophy or religion that has ever fixed me. All others failed. > There's also countless medically and scientifically verified miracles. They're still happening today, and it's not just "oh trust me it was a miracle", but actual medical professionals testify under oath that such-and-such truly happened and that it isn't possible under any known laws of physics or medicine etc. But in a broader discussion about astrology, these are the kinds of claims made by all sorts of groups. As for the works of Christian bodies throughout history, well, the world has seen it and it is what it is. It may be good, it may be bad, or somewhere in-between, but it isn't morally beautiful enough as a sole justification to adopt a position of faith on these matters. But none of this really talks about why you know the real Christian groups from the lesser ones. That's the kind of talk any Christian group would make against another.

sdegutis 7y ago
The only way someone can be Protestant is to be ignorant of history. If you look at the writings of the saints for the past 1900-2000 years, they all believed the doctrines of the Catholic Church, and they were saints because they lived those teachings and received her Sacraments which are only present in the Catholic Church. All forms of Protestants started off in the 1500s by simply guessing and assuming that the Catholic Church had strayed from the truth, and then guessing what that truth might be. There is no credible basis for any of their teachings at all. They started off on the logical fallacy that because there are evildoers in the church and because the church seems to condone their behavior, the church must have fallen from grace and erred in her doctrine. No, the Church’s members were corrupt but her teachings and Sacraments remained intact. And she was healed of her gangrene and errors by saints like Frances de Sales and Ignatius of Loyola, who explained the truth and converted hundreds of thousands of Protestants back to Catholicism even during their lifetimes, let alone afterward.
- lucozade 7y ago
  > The only way someone can be Protestant is to be ignorant of history Or being born into it. Kinda like the vast majority of Roman Catholics in fact. > and they were saints because they lived those teachings They were saints because they passed the Roman Catholic saint tests. The Church is very specific about that. > All forms of Protestants started off in the 1500s Of the ones that called themselves Protestant, you may be correct. Of the groups that the Church labelled heretical and got quite pointy with, they've been around a lot longer. > They started off on the logical fallacy... Nah, most of the Protestants started off having problems with the idolatry and the excess of mammon. > There is no credible basis for any of their teachings at all The Bible is a bit picky about idolatry and excess of mammon. I guess it's each to their own as to what you consider a credible teaching. > And she was healed of her gangrene and errors Well, that's good to know. Hate to think there's any systemic issues with the modern Church.

dragonwriter 7y ago

> There's also countless medically and scientifically verified miracles. Speaking as a Catholic, no there aren't. There are simply alleged miracles that have not been scientifically explained. Miracles aren't scientifically verifiable, and even a lack of current explanation is necessarily potentially a transitory state.

sdegutis 7y ago
Right, I short-handed it. If an event occurred that is quite contrary to our thorough understanding of a situation, e.g. a sudden disappearance of a fatal and currently-incurable illness along with all traces of it, and this happens directly after the invocation of the intercession of a Saint in heaven, then it is theoretically possible that it's a coincidence and that we just don't understand further science behind it. But only someone who doesn't want to believe in the obvious and strong conclusion that it was a miracle is going to be able to. God designed it this way, so that it's not absolutely provable, but pretty much obvious to anyone with a good heart. I add this last clause because as Venerable Fulton Sheen said, the atheist half-believes in God by night, and nobody refuses to be Catholic except if its incompatible with the life they would rather live. Those who don't want to believe the truth don't have to, for "God sends upon them a strong delusion to make them believe what is false."