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This kind of over-generalization based on "generations" is nonsense. I'm technically "a Gen X" (although I haven't developed a bitter "just so" worldview based

This kind of over-generalization based on "generations" is nonsense. I'm technically "a Gen X" (although I haven't developed a bitter "just so" worldview based on having been shafted by the different age group with all the baddies in it) and have got a personal pension that I've paid into.

cf141q5325 7y ago
Its a bit more complex but you can see how OP has a point if you look at countries with a state mandated pension system, Germany for example. While I dont think blame will get us anywhere, the idea that the last generation leaves us a pension system that might have some similarities to a snowball system is hard to argue with, especially if there is no political will to fix this. The last big debate ended with the government making no changes and declaring that pensions is safe till at least 2030. Which is not really that big of a trust boost for someone who is planing to retire a lot later. Not even mentioning for how many its clear that they will get a pension on or under the level of welfare. So despite the knowledge, that me getting a pension from the pension system is lets say unsure, i will keep paying the the pension of the last generation who will be entering their retirement in the knowledge that the system is broken and unsustainable. We dont have a generation conflict yet, but if the government keeps ignoring the issue in the hope of it becoming the next generations problem there will be one. Looking at the debate on climate change, where the question what the current generation 50+ is leaving us behind, I hope we will be talking about pensions as well.
jerf 7y ago
It often is and can be, but since when it comes to "pensions" we are specifically referring to periods of time and demographics, it can be relevant. Although when the bad stuff will happen may or may not align with any particular definition of the generations in question.
marcus_holmes 7y ago
my parents got a free education (with a living allowance), mortgage tax relief on their mortgage payments, a pension based on their final salary, and a state pension that is growing about twice as fast as unemployment benefits. The free education stopped as the last boomer quit university. The mortgage relief stopped as the last boomer paid off their mortgage. The pension was roughly equal to unemployment benefits until the first boomers retired. It's not coincidence.
- zanny 7y ago
  It could also be correlation without causation. Moneyed interests love to depower the working poor - using a generational boundary coinciding with the grotesque expansion of corporate autonomy and authority over society minimizes the risk of a social upset while you ransack society and normalize poverty in the future generations. Despite all the rhetoric to the contrary "boomers" are not a hive mind of universally conservative tech illiterate bitter resentful retirees who want to destroy the planet. In the same way Milennials are not some collective unified anti-capitalist anti-authoritation avocado toast pot huffing borg collective, people act in self interest and often irrationally so. Few are operating on substantial let alone complete information. Before you look at systemic societal change and pin it on a subconscious predisposition of millions you might want to look at those informed and empowered to cause such change without the cooperation of a disparate group representing almost a hundred million persons. Those with power and authority have long learned optimized techniques to divert culture and society towards their own ends and have been machinating such policy for centuries. If you are paying more for education, housing, and getting paid less there is probably someone swimming in a Scrooge McDuck money pit on the weekends that with intent wanted that outcome to happen and aligned vast capital resources in participation with the capital resources of thousands of other plutocrats to see it done. The Fox News obsessed obese retiree blaming immigrants for all ills while being jealous of youth and a life unfulfilled is not organized or educated enough to affect national economic and political forces to inflict their will. But the millionaire boss at their last employer with close ties to all levels of government and the executives of all other corporations in their market certainly is. We need class consciousness in opposition to power seeking to exploit and abuse. I don't expect those of older generations to embrace it - they have vested interests in defending the status quo and are thus erected as the vanguard of the moneyed interests that both make them miserable and make them feel safe and secure in their station. They are not an ally, but they are not the enemy - they are a symptom and victim of systematized propaganda meant to turn them against their own self interest.
  - marcus_holmes 7y ago
    I'm not blaming the boomers, it's not their fault that politicians pander to the demographic group with the most votes. It does suck for those of us who aren't in that demographic, though.

cf141q5325 7y ago

Its a bit more complex but you can see how OP has a point if you look at countries with a state mandated pension system, Germany for example. While I dont think blame will get us anywhere, the idea that the last generation leaves us a pension system that might have some similarities to a snowball system is hard to argue with, especially if there is no political will to fix this. The last big debate ended with the government making no changes and declaring that pensions is safe till at least 2030. Which is not really that big of a trust boost for someone who is planing to retire a lot later. Not even mentioning for how many its clear that they will get a pension on or under the level of welfare. So despite the knowledge, that me getting a pension from the pension system is lets say unsure, i will keep paying the the pension of the last generation who will be entering their retirement in the knowledge that the system is broken and unsustainable. We dont have a generation conflict yet, but if the government keeps ignoring the issue in the hope of it becoming the next generations problem there will be one. Looking at the debate on climate change, where the question what the current generation 50+ is leaving us behind, I hope we will be talking about pensions as well.

jerf 7y ago

It often is and can be, but since when it comes to "pensions" we are specifically referring to periods of time and demographics, it can be relevant. Although when the bad stuff will happen may or may not align with any particular definition of the generations in question.

marcus_holmes 7y ago

my parents got a free education (with a living allowance), mortgage tax relief on their mortgage payments, a pension based on their final salary, and a state pension that is growing about twice as fast as unemployment benefits. The free education stopped as the last boomer quit university. The mortgage relief stopped as the last boomer paid off their mortgage. The pension was roughly equal to unemployment benefits until the first boomers retired. It's not coincidence.

zanny 7y ago
It could also be correlation without causation. Moneyed interests love to depower the working poor - using a generational boundary coinciding with the grotesque expansion of corporate autonomy and authority over society minimizes the risk of a social upset while you ransack society and normalize poverty in the future generations. Despite all the rhetoric to the contrary "boomers" are not a hive mind of universally conservative tech illiterate bitter resentful retirees who want to destroy the planet. In the same way Milennials are not some collective unified anti-capitalist anti-authoritation avocado toast pot huffing borg collective, people act in self interest and often irrationally so. Few are operating on substantial let alone complete information. Before you look at systemic societal change and pin it on a subconscious predisposition of millions you might want to look at those informed and empowered to cause such change without the cooperation of a disparate group representing almost a hundred million persons. Those with power and authority have long learned optimized techniques to divert culture and society towards their own ends and have been machinating such policy for centuries. If you are paying more for education, housing, and getting paid less there is probably someone swimming in a Scrooge McDuck money pit on the weekends that with intent wanted that outcome to happen and aligned vast capital resources in participation with the capital resources of thousands of other plutocrats to see it done. The Fox News obsessed obese retiree blaming immigrants for all ills while being jealous of youth and a life unfulfilled is not organized or educated enough to affect national economic and political forces to inflict their will. But the millionaire boss at their last employer with close ties to all levels of government and the executives of all other corporations in their market certainly is. We need class consciousness in opposition to power seeking to exploit and abuse. I don't expect those of older generations to embrace it - they have vested interests in defending the status quo and are thus erected as the vanguard of the moneyed interests that both make them miserable and make them feel safe and secure in their station. They are not an ally, but they are not the enemy - they are a symptom and victim of systematized propaganda meant to turn them against their own self interest.
- marcus_holmes 7y ago
  I'm not blaming the boomers, it's not their fault that politicians pander to the demographic group with the most votes. It does suck for those of us who aren't in that demographic, though.