5 ms·

Latest Android phones overtake iPhone 4 in user reviews

27 points by will_critchlow 16y ago

lukejonesme 16y ago
The market is saturated with Android devices. Of course it's going to overtake the iPhone market. If there was only one Android device available at any given time, that'd be a completely different question.
- lukejonesme 16y ago
  I realise my response seems more targeted towards sales than reviews, but it covers both sides.
  - ZeroGravitas 16y ago
    I've heard that said many times in terms of sales. Do you really think that it applies to review scores as well? I mean you could suggest that some niche android-powered device might so neatly fit some weird need that it gets full marks from the 3 people who buy it, which would be higher than the average of all iPhone reviews. But the example in the article is the multi-million selling Galaxy S. (Note also it's UK focused, so AT&T versus Verizon doesn't apply)
- will_critchlow 16y ago
  I think the point is that if you look at the average across all devices, the iPhone is still ahead, but if there was only one Android phone (and it was one of the good ones e.g. the Samsung Galaxy S) then Android would be ahead. The average Android review score is pulled down by the crappy Android devices. Having an open market creates higher highs and lower lows than Apple controlling everything (it seems).
  - Terretta 16y ago
    And not whatsoever related to a biased agenda among the reviewers? Very different things matter to those who gravitate to one or the other. iPhone users rate it down if it doesn't work miracles without them even thinking about it. Android users rate it up for maxing out tech specs and embodying "open" principles. True, I exaggerate. But these self-selecting groups rate on different criteria.
    - will_critchlow 16y ago
      Yep. True. Not unbiased in the slightest. I find it interesting nonetheless as I would not have guessed it to be true... You (and other commenters saying similar things) are definitely right on this point, but I remain interested :)
    - ergo98 16y ago
      True, I exaggerate. Again, Android is now mainstream. The iPhone is now mainstream. Any delusions that denizens of places like HN are the typical sort of buyer are terribly far off reality. The average buyer has no such desire to hoist the flag. And every time Android comes up the anecdotes appear about how everyone anyone knows with an Android is so disappointed and just can't wait until the day that they can trade it in for an iPhone, etc. Which of course is garbage, but there it is. Android as a mainstream platform has gotten dramatically better. Aside from improvements in the versions, the application ecosystem is what is really improving perceptions of the device. It is less common now that Android users feel like they have some sort of knock-off device, finding themselves left out of the application game.
- ergo98 16y ago
  While I do think you were confused when you wrote this (although even relative to sales it's questionable: Apple came along and decimated the entire field of J2ME devices), I would actually agree that relative to best device it is true. Why? Because there is intense, endless competition in the Android space, with dozens of companies kicking and screaming to get on top of the pile. The pace of change on the hardware side has been blistering (less so on the software side, though Google is the critical impediment there) because of that. It is an evolutionary ecosystem. The iPhone side of course adapts to competition, but with just a single vendor and a single set of interests, it does so much more slowly. When the 3GS came out it was, by far, the top of the herd. When the 4 came out it was tight, but it was a bit above the best of the Android pack. With the iPhone 5...I'm not so sure. I don't know what they could reasonably do to catch up to the ridiculously equipped devices coming out now.
- bane 16y ago
  It sounds like your advice is for Apple to release more devices to compete at different levels of the platform.
rbanffy 16y ago
Sometimes I wonder why so many people find it so important having the best phone ever created. I usually settle for "good enough" and don't think much about it.
- melling 16y ago
  Why wouldn't you want the best in class of any product? You only "go around once." Also, consider the upside of companies striving to produce "best in class" products. Improvements are made much quicker and price drops more rapidly.
  - davidw 16y ago
    > Why wouldn't you want the best in class of any product? Because of the energy expended to find it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Paradox_of_Choice:_Why_More_Is_Less http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Paradox_of_Choice:_Why_More...
  - rbanffy 16y ago
    I can understand why wanting the best cost/benefit, but I can't understand why obsessing about having the best possible phone available this week it is so common.
- mironathetin 16y ago
  There has been an interesting book from Barry Schwartz a while ago (the paradox of choice). He describes types of users, like the optimizer and the ones that go for good enough. Schwartz concludes that optimizers are usually never satisfied. They spend tons of time to find the best and then, after a short while, go on reassuring themselves, that what they have is still the best and start the hunt for the better. These are Apples best clients. On the other hand, the good enough types make a quick decision and don't look back - or, spend sufficient time to find what they need and then don't look back. I think it depends on your personal preferences (or on the amount of time you have available). Who wants to spend time on the choice of a dumb phone? I certainly don't and I have better things to do. I am a user of the first 5GB iPod. It was a gorgeous tool but today I am glad that I don't have to carry this brick with me anymore. That's why I never considered an iPhone or an Android thing so far. But, if you like, go ahead.
cletus 16y ago
Yawn. This is such meaningless drivel. User reviews? Really? Not even the sane user reviewing both so you have some form of control? Reviewers of anything are outliers. Generally the motivations for users to review are one or more of: 1. To complain about something. Unhappy people are more likely to make noise. 2. To justify their choice. Such reviews are very often skewed as the user is compensating for insecurity or pushing a philosophy. 3. Because they like the sound of their own voices (metaphorically speakimg); and/or 4. Because they're really happy. Most users of a product (happy or unhappy) write no reviews. So we're talking about a vocal minority. What's more people have a bug up their ass about the iPhone in particular. Consumer Reports for example seems to have abandoned all pretense of objectivity when it comes to the iPhone 4: 1. Despite giving the iPhone 4 their highest phone rating ever they somehow couldn't recommend it; and 2. They called the Verizon iPhone "middle-aged tech" (iirc) when nothing else has an equivalent or better screen and other specs are at best a wash. Most iPhone users love their phones. In my experience an awful lot of Android users aren't buying an Android phone; they're not buying an iPhone either because of carrier (predominantly a US issue) or they have some objection based on the iPhone being popular or some guff about walled gardens. Seriously 99% of this iPhone vs Android stuff is just noise and typically just link bait.
- ZeroGravitas 16y ago
  The actual reviews all seem very reasonable, and their algorithms seem to extract sensible meaning from the noise: http://www.reevoo.com/p/samsung-galaxy-s http://www.reevoo.com/p/samsung-galaxy-s http://www.reevoo.com/p/apple-iphone-4-16gb http://www.reevoo.com/p/apple-iphone-4-16gb Basically, the Galaxy is slightly behind on all subsections, except battery which is its weakest point and biggest differential compared with the iPhone, and the value for money, which is much better for the Galaxy (it's about a third less to buy). Note again, this is UK focused, where the graduations of handset price (including buying the handset separately) seem to be better reflected in your monthly bill. As far as I can tell in the US there's no advantage to not taking the best phone they offer since you're paying the same monthly rate anyway which will dwarf the handset price.
  - ZeroGravitas 16y ago
bjnortier_hn 16y ago
The most interesting thing in this article is the big jump in the average review score for the Galaxy S during September. It would be great to understand why that happened, and if it was really because of a "changing mix of buyer" and/or "glossy advertising".
- drats 16y ago
  There was an Android update in September 2010.[1] Edit + N.B.: The vertical axis on the graph is a "how to lie with statistics" one and makes it look like a bigger climb than it is. It does indeed overtake the iPhone but it's only a move from ~7.9 to ~8.5. [1]http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&client=ubuntu&channel=cs&ie=UTF-8&q=android+update+galaxy+S+september http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&client=ubun...
geoffpado 16y ago
Wow! People like the newest phones over a phone that's 6 months old? I don't believe it.
- ZeroGravitas 16y ago
  The Galaxy S (which is the focus of the article) was released in June, the same time as the iPhone 4.
nopal 16y ago
Do normal people (read: non geeks) use Reevoo? I've never heard of it, but maybe that's because it's in the UK and I'm in the US. The population providing the reviews can skew these types of analyses.

The market is saturated with Android devices. Of course it's going to overtake the iPhone market. If there was only one Android device available at any given time, that'd be a completely different question.

lukejonesme 16y ago
I realise my response seems more targeted towards sales than reviews, but it covers both sides.
- ZeroGravitas 16y ago
  I've heard that said many times in terms of sales. Do you really think that it applies to review scores as well? I mean you could suggest that some niche android-powered device might so neatly fit some weird need that it gets full marks from the 3 people who buy it, which would be higher than the average of all iPhone reviews. But the example in the article is the multi-million selling Galaxy S. (Note also it's UK focused, so AT&T versus Verizon doesn't apply)
will_critchlow 16y ago
I think the point is that if you look at the average across all devices, the iPhone is still ahead, but if there was only one Android phone (and it was one of the good ones e.g. the Samsung Galaxy S) then Android would be ahead. The average Android review score is pulled down by the crappy Android devices. Having an open market creates higher highs and lower lows than Apple controlling everything (it seems).
- Terretta 16y ago
  And not whatsoever related to a biased agenda among the reviewers? Very different things matter to those who gravitate to one or the other. iPhone users rate it down if it doesn't work miracles without them even thinking about it. Android users rate it up for maxing out tech specs and embodying "open" principles. True, I exaggerate. But these self-selecting groups rate on different criteria.
  - will_critchlow 16y ago
    Yep. True. Not unbiased in the slightest. I find it interesting nonetheless as I would not have guessed it to be true... You (and other commenters saying similar things) are definitely right on this point, but I remain interested :)
  - ergo98 16y ago
    True, I exaggerate. Again, Android is now mainstream. The iPhone is now mainstream. Any delusions that denizens of places like HN are the typical sort of buyer are terribly far off reality. The average buyer has no such desire to hoist the flag. And every time Android comes up the anecdotes appear about how everyone anyone knows with an Android is so disappointed and just can't wait until the day that they can trade it in for an iPhone, etc. Which of course is garbage, but there it is. Android as a mainstream platform has gotten dramatically better. Aside from improvements in the versions, the application ecosystem is what is really improving perceptions of the device. It is less common now that Android users feel like they have some sort of knock-off device, finding themselves left out of the application game.
ergo98 16y ago
While I do think you were confused when you wrote this (although even relative to sales it's questionable: Apple came along and decimated the entire field of J2ME devices), I would actually agree that relative to best device it is true. Why? Because there is intense, endless competition in the Android space, with dozens of companies kicking and screaming to get on top of the pile. The pace of change on the hardware side has been blistering (less so on the software side, though Google is the critical impediment there) because of that. It is an evolutionary ecosystem. The iPhone side of course adapts to competition, but with just a single vendor and a single set of interests, it does so much more slowly. When the 3GS came out it was, by far, the top of the herd. When the 4 came out it was tight, but it was a bit above the best of the Android pack. With the iPhone 5...I'm not so sure. I don't know what they could reasonably do to catch up to the ridiculously equipped devices coming out now.
bane 16y ago
It sounds like your advice is for Apple to release more devices to compete at different levels of the platform.

rbanffy 16y ago

Sometimes I wonder why so many people find it so important having the best phone ever created. I usually settle for "good enough" and don't think much about it.

melling 16y ago
Why wouldn't you want the best in class of any product? You only "go around once." Also, consider the upside of companies striving to produce "best in class" products. Improvements are made much quicker and price drops more rapidly.
- davidw 16y ago
  > Why wouldn't you want the best in class of any product? Because of the energy expended to find it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Paradox_of_Choice:_Why_More_Is_Less http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Paradox_of_Choice:_Why_More...
- rbanffy 16y ago
  I can understand why wanting the best cost/benefit, but I can't understand why obsessing about having the best possible phone available this week it is so common.
mironathetin 16y ago
There has been an interesting book from Barry Schwartz a while ago (the paradox of choice). He describes types of users, like the optimizer and the ones that go for good enough. Schwartz concludes that optimizers are usually never satisfied. They spend tons of time to find the best and then, after a short while, go on reassuring themselves, that what they have is still the best and start the hunt for the better. These are Apples best clients. On the other hand, the good enough types make a quick decision and don't look back - or, spend sufficient time to find what they need and then don't look back. I think it depends on your personal preferences (or on the amount of time you have available). Who wants to spend time on the choice of a dumb phone? I certainly don't and I have better things to do. I am a user of the first 5GB iPod. It was a gorgeous tool but today I am glad that I don't have to carry this brick with me anymore. That's why I never considered an iPhone or an Android thing so far. But, if you like, go ahead.

cletus 16y ago

Yawn. This is such meaningless drivel. User reviews? Really? Not even the sane user reviewing both so you have some form of control? Reviewers of anything are outliers. Generally the motivations for users to review are one or more of: 1. To complain about something. Unhappy people are more likely to make noise. 2. To justify their choice. Such reviews are very often skewed as the user is compensating for insecurity or pushing a philosophy. 3. Because they like the sound of their own voices (metaphorically speakimg); and/or 4. Because they're really happy. Most users of a product (happy or unhappy) write no reviews. So we're talking about a vocal minority. What's more people have a bug up their ass about the iPhone in particular. Consumer Reports for example seems to have abandoned all pretense of objectivity when it comes to the iPhone 4: 1. Despite giving the iPhone 4 their highest phone rating ever they somehow couldn't recommend it; and 2. They called the Verizon iPhone "middle-aged tech" (iirc) when nothing else has an equivalent or better screen and other specs are at best a wash. Most iPhone users love their phones. In my experience an awful lot of Android users aren't buying an Android phone; they're not buying an iPhone either because of carrier (predominantly a US issue) or they have some objection based on the iPhone being popular or some guff about walled gardens. Seriously 99% of this iPhone vs Android stuff is just noise and typically just link bait.

ZeroGravitas 16y ago
The actual reviews all seem very reasonable, and their algorithms seem to extract sensible meaning from the noise: http://www.reevoo.com/p/samsung-galaxy-s http://www.reevoo.com/p/samsung-galaxy-s http://www.reevoo.com/p/apple-iphone-4-16gb http://www.reevoo.com/p/apple-iphone-4-16gb Basically, the Galaxy is slightly behind on all subsections, except battery which is its weakest point and biggest differential compared with the iPhone, and the value for money, which is much better for the Galaxy (it's about a third less to buy). Note again, this is UK focused, where the graduations of handset price (including buying the handset separately) seem to be better reflected in your monthly bill. As far as I can tell in the US there's no advantage to not taking the best phone they offer since you're paying the same monthly rate anyway which will dwarf the handset price.
- ZeroGravitas 16y ago

bjnortier_hn 16y ago

The most interesting thing in this article is the big jump in the average review score for the Galaxy S during September. It would be great to understand why that happened, and if it was really because of a "changing mix of buyer" and/or "glossy advertising".

drats 16y ago
There was an Android update in September 2010.[1] Edit + N.B.: The vertical axis on the graph is a "how to lie with statistics" one and makes it look like a bigger climb than it is. It does indeed overtake the iPhone but it's only a move from ~7.9 to ~8.5. [1]http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&client=ubuntu&channel=cs&ie=UTF-8&q=android+update+galaxy+S+september http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&client=ubun...

geoffpado 16y ago

Wow! People like the newest phones over a phone that's 6 months old? I don't believe it.

ZeroGravitas 16y ago
The Galaxy S (which is the focus of the article) was released in June, the same time as the iPhone 4.

nopal 16y ago

Do normal people (read: non geeks) use Reevoo? I've never heard of it, but maybe that's because it's in the UK and I'm in the US. The population providing the reviews can skew these types of analyses.