6 ms·

As far as i'm aware, there's no proof in the world that suggests that astrology and religion are not completely interchangeable in this respect... Especially th

by ako 7y ago

As far as i'm aware, there's no proof in the world that suggests that astrology and religion are not completely interchangeable in this respect... Especially the part where "they are praying on peoples innocent stupidity". It's really frustrating how some people can go from completely rational on something like astrology, to completely irrational when it comes to religion, when they are basically the same thing.

coldtea 7y ago
>As far as i'm aware, there's no proof in the world that suggests that astrology and religion are not completely interchangeable in this respect... Especially the part where "they are praying on peoples innocent stupidity". Well, religion has been studied for evolutionary advantages. And of course religion has shaped and sustained whole civilizations, arts, philosophy, etc, in ways which astrology did not, and in many ways that people still identify as beneficial.
- ako 7y ago
  Yes, it has evolutionary advantages, just like placebos have advantages. Again, not so different from astrology. Depends on how gullible the believer is. And how much force the religious institutions use to enforce the correct behavior of the supposed believers (and now for something completely different... ;-).
  - ulisesrmzroche 7y ago
    A placebo works whether you like it or not that’s the beauty about placebos
  - coldtea 7y ago
    >Yes, it has evolutionary advantages, just like placebos have advantages The simile being that the various reglious Gods are also not real? That's irrelevant, because religion, as a human practice, and the actions, practices, decisions taken based on them are actually existing and actually modifying the world. So that would be more like a placebo that made you do X (e.g. go on a diet) and you see effects from that. In that case, it's not a placebo anymore.
- icebraining 7y ago
  > And of course religion has shaped and sustained whole civilizations, arts, philosophy, etc, in ways which astrology did not Many religions that have shaped civilizations were heavily based on divining information about human affairs and terrestrial events by studying the movements and relative positions of celestial objects (i.e., astrology). Multiple Rome emperors had court astrologers, for example.
  - coldtea 7y ago
    >Multiple Rome emperors had court astrologers, for example. Yes, but not of the major religions are about that -- Christianity, Bhudaism, Jewism, Islam, etc. Nor where the religions like the ancient Greek, Egyptian etc that did contain such rituals, predominantly about those. So we can quite easily consider astrology as something either separate or a very small subset of any religion that shaped civilization...
cies 7y ago
I beg to differ. Astrologers think that some planetary constructions yield some kind of personality traits. This should be easy to test! So Mars is associated with strong sports/soldier skills: then prove it! Same for Gemini and abstract thinking skills. Maybe I'm off with my understanding of astrology, but my idea is always that they cannot prove what they claim should be provable. Now lets consider a proof for God's existence. Do most religions claim to have such proof in hard terms? I don't think so. The say it's a belief, a faith. Not saying that the two not have many things in common, but I also see a strong contrast.
- mdavidn 7y ago
  Religions make testable claims as well, mostly with respect to events in the past and in the future.
  - cmonnow 7y ago
    Yes, however people who are not willing to do the test, simply call sour grapes. For e.g., suppose you make a claim "strawberry tastes sweet", and I have never eaten strawberry before, I'll say "can you prove it?". You'll say "Sure, here just take a bite, and you'll know for yourself". And I respond "Nah, I don't want to do that. Can you still prove it? The burden of proof is on you". No, the burden of proof doesn't always rest on the person making the claim. Once he outlines the method to verify it, his job is done. The burden of verifying the proof now rests on the skeptic.
    - yetanotherjosh 7y ago
      Are you saying that religion offers proof and skeptics just don't want to verify it? For example?
      - cmonnow 7y ago
        Correct. There is a way to remember your past lives, if you do a certain penance for 12 years - not impossible, not complex, very simple, but very hard - do not utter a lie for 12 years consecutively. There are no loopholes - if you are born dumb, or lose the ability to speak, that doesn't count. you must be able and willing to speak, but still not utter a lie. Do it for 12 years without a single break continuously, and on year 13 day 1, you can remember your previous births. Some have done it (hence the claim), but not many in the western 'modern scientific' world care to verify it, and just pooh-pooh it. Of course, it's not a loss for those who made the claim. Whoever wants it can go after it.
JackFr 7y ago
> It's really frustrating how some people can go from completely rational on something like astrology, to completely irrational when it comes to religion, when they are basically the same thing. Or perhaps consider the possibility that it's a shortcoming of your understanding. How do you choose to order your life? It's not a scientific question.
- icebraining 7y ago
  No, it's a philosophical one. But religion is more than philosophy.
- yetanotherjosh 7y ago
  Where's the shortcoming? When someone talks about astrology as b.s. because, hey, we have science to show as much, then they go and talk about virgin births and resurrections and holy books that are pure revelation of the word of god, etc, they're being hypocritical in so far as appealing to science as a guiding principle in the search for truth.

by ako 7y ago

coldtea 7y ago

>As far as i'm aware, there's no proof in the world that suggests that astrology and religion are not completely interchangeable in this respect... Especially the part where "they are praying on peoples innocent stupidity". Well, religion has been studied for evolutionary advantages. And of course religion has shaped and sustained whole civilizations, arts, philosophy, etc, in ways which astrology did not, and in many ways that people still identify as beneficial.

ako 7y ago
Yes, it has evolutionary advantages, just like placebos have advantages. Again, not so different from astrology. Depends on how gullible the believer is. And how much force the religious institutions use to enforce the correct behavior of the supposed believers (and now for something completely different... ;-).
- ulisesrmzroche 7y ago
  A placebo works whether you like it or not that’s the beauty about placebos
- coldtea 7y ago
  >Yes, it has evolutionary advantages, just like placebos have advantages The simile being that the various reglious Gods are also not real? That's irrelevant, because religion, as a human practice, and the actions, practices, decisions taken based on them are actually existing and actually modifying the world. So that would be more like a placebo that made you do X (e.g. go on a diet) and you see effects from that. In that case, it's not a placebo anymore.
icebraining 7y ago
> And of course religion has shaped and sustained whole civilizations, arts, philosophy, etc, in ways which astrology did not Many religions that have shaped civilizations were heavily based on divining information about human affairs and terrestrial events by studying the movements and relative positions of celestial objects (i.e., astrology). Multiple Rome emperors had court astrologers, for example.
- coldtea 7y ago
  >Multiple Rome emperors had court astrologers, for example. Yes, but not of the major religions are about that -- Christianity, Bhudaism, Jewism, Islam, etc. Nor where the religions like the ancient Greek, Egyptian etc that did contain such rituals, predominantly about those. So we can quite easily consider astrology as something either separate or a very small subset of any religion that shaped civilization...

cies 7y ago

I beg to differ. Astrologers think that some planetary constructions yield some kind of personality traits. This should be easy to test! So Mars is associated with strong sports/soldier skills: then prove it! Same for Gemini and abstract thinking skills. Maybe I'm off with my understanding of astrology, but my idea is always that they cannot prove what they claim should be provable. Now lets consider a proof for God's existence. Do most religions claim to have such proof in hard terms? I don't think so. The say it's a belief, a faith. Not saying that the two not have many things in common, but I also see a strong contrast.

mdavidn 7y ago
Religions make testable claims as well, mostly with respect to events in the past and in the future.
- cmonnow 7y ago
  Yes, however people who are not willing to do the test, simply call sour grapes. For e.g., suppose you make a claim "strawberry tastes sweet", and I have never eaten strawberry before, I'll say "can you prove it?". You'll say "Sure, here just take a bite, and you'll know for yourself". And I respond "Nah, I don't want to do that. Can you still prove it? The burden of proof is on you". No, the burden of proof doesn't always rest on the person making the claim. Once he outlines the method to verify it, his job is done. The burden of verifying the proof now rests on the skeptic.
  - yetanotherjosh 7y ago
    Are you saying that religion offers proof and skeptics just don't want to verify it? For example?
    - cmonnow 7y ago
      Correct. There is a way to remember your past lives, if you do a certain penance for 12 years - not impossible, not complex, very simple, but very hard - do not utter a lie for 12 years consecutively. There are no loopholes - if you are born dumb, or lose the ability to speak, that doesn't count. you must be able and willing to speak, but still not utter a lie. Do it for 12 years without a single break continuously, and on year 13 day 1, you can remember your previous births. Some have done it (hence the claim), but not many in the western 'modern scientific' world care to verify it, and just pooh-pooh it. Of course, it's not a loss for those who made the claim. Whoever wants it can go after it.

JackFr 7y ago

> It's really frustrating how some people can go from completely rational on something like astrology, to completely irrational when it comes to religion, when they are basically the same thing. Or perhaps consider the possibility that it's a shortcoming of your understanding. How do you choose to order your life? It's not a scientific question.

icebraining 7y ago
No, it's a philosophical one. But religion is more than philosophy.
yetanotherjosh 7y ago
Where's the shortcoming? When someone talks about astrology as b.s. because, hey, we have science to show as much, then they go and talk about virgin births and resurrections and holy books that are pure revelation of the word of god, etc, they're being hypocritical in so far as appealing to science as a guiding principle in the search for truth.