5 ms·
There is an approach of modern astrology that is not predictive and mystical, and that appeals to many because it is non-judgemental and makes no scientific cla
by jmkd 7y ago
There is an approach of modern astrology that is not predictive and mystical, and that appeals to many because it is non-judgemental and makes no scientific claim for itself. It's not a scam or a swindle, it's only claim is being a guide or tool for creativity.
It works in the same way the I Ching does, simply by presenting connections and ideas to people and allowing them to draw conclusions, resolve issues and work on their healing.
Without the I Ching we would not have the best of Philip K Dick, so dismissing all forms of astrology disempowers those for whom it is genuinely useful and inspirational.
This is an unfashionable and unscientific view, but that does not decrease the value for humans who - it turns out - are never 100% rational beings, and that's a wonderful thing.
- malvosenior 7y agoThis assumes that there are no negatives to introducing and supporting anti-science en mass. I think society is at a very real risk when it embraces false reasoning and anti-intellectualism. We need more logic and fact based thinking in our world, not less.
- jmkd 7y agoBy this logic art is anti-science. The value of the I Ching or elements of astrology is the value of art.
- malvosenior 7y agoArt doesn't pretend to have the ability to predict the future through mystical means. It doesn't present an illogical premise that's meant to be taken seriously. You might view astrology as art, which is fine but plenty of people really believe in it.
- jmkd 7y agoTo be clear, only some parts of astrology pretend to predict the future through mystical means. Just as some parts of religion insist their version is the only truth. So I believe the most reasoned response on these topics will depend on whether we are talking about the whole or a part.
- malvosenior 7y agoIsn't mysticism the most important part? I've only ever heard people who believe in astrology reference that aspect of it (opposed to say the aesthetics of the movement).
- bena 7y agoThey're engaging in a traditional motte and bailey argument. Astrology is bullshit mysticism, so you can't defend it on any practical issue. But it is fanciful, so you can kinda suggest that it has some value as fiction. But Harry Potter is just as fanciful and no one is trying to predict the future by figuring out which House they belong to. Which is just about as useful as astrology.
- jmkd 7y agoWas unaware of motte and bailey so thanks for the heads up. You can say astrology is bullshit mysticism if you can also say religion is bullshit mysticism. If you want to say the latter that's fine, but I believe the discussion should be more nuanced (despite being an anti-theist myself). I'm just trying to find a way to say that astrology is a bigger, broader topic than those merely aware of newspaper horoscopes know about. As such to discuss it in a single generalist put down is to exhibit ignorance of or disinterest in complexity.
- bena 7y agoOk. Religion is bullshit mysticism. I'm not a big believer in the paranormal
- jmkd 7y agoFor the mainstream modern audience, yes you're probably right. But astrology has rich and deep history of specialist variations, unsurprising if you spent a moment comparing Aztec, Mayan, Indian, Ancient Greek and several other civilizations who all furthered debate and branched this way and that. Each of them was merely attempting to understand themselves further, and succeeding in part no thanks to science but to wisdom.
- bena 7y agoAnd without amphetamines and his suicide attempt we wouldn't have A Scanner Darkly. That doesn't make either of those things good. So I really wouldn't template my life off of things Philip K Dick did.
- jmkd 7y agoMy point is he used an artform to inspire his art, and we all should be afforded that privilege. Yes I believe art is a good thing, whether it turns you into a murderer or a saint is a different topic.
- bena 7y agoMy point is that Philip K Dick was Philip K Dick. The I Ching didn't make him a brilliant artist. Neither did amphetamines. Neither did attempting suicide. He did all of those things and was a brilliant artist. Yes, he used aspects of his life to influence his art, but everyone does. Whether they realize it or not. So even had Philip K Dick not heard of the I Ching, he would have still produced brilliant work.
- samatman 7y agoThe suicide attempt is its own thing, but honesty compels me to consider PKD both an argument for and against the goodness of amphetamines. World War II is a fairly compelling argument agains them, admittedly.
- zentropia 7y agoIt remembers me the idea of magic by Alan Moore. Magic as tools for inspirations, not as supernatural tools.