4 ms·

couple of key points here: #1 - this article is a great example of how the conversation is shifting, but the mid-point we're at now is a wasteland of nonsense

couple of key points here: #1 - this article is a great example of how the conversation is shifting, but the mid-point we're at now is a wasteland of nonsense and cognitive dissonance. the text of the article is about the truth of what things matter to reduce your footprint (kids, flying, cars, beef), but the tone of the article and the headline is one of "things are gonna be fine because the whiz kids are working on it" soft-denialism. #2 - the co2 footprint from jet travel is somewhere between half and 1/4th of the overall greenhouse gas emission footprint of flying. this is because nitrogen oxide and water vapor are also greenhouse gasses (particularly at altitude). It gets very complicated to factor, but at a high level you should simply 3x the carbon cost of flights for the "CO2e" total: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_aviation#Total_climate_effects https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_aviati... #3 - the electrification of air travel is very well under way. it will not replace trans-oceanic flights in our lifetimes, but it can replace a massive amount of regional travel, and customers can be forced to adapt to a multi-hop world (jfk <-> ord <-> den <-> sfo). If you'd like to learn a ton about the state of the art 1 year ago, check out this playlist from the Sustainable Aviation Summit last year: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LDU0Wgn0Lk&list=PLWUnMAqjJ9CAue9jS0osS5i-QQF8X6Q-l https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LDU0Wgn0Lk&list=PLWUnMAqjJ9...

sokoloff 7y ago
Given that we already have private jets flying routes that are directly served by airlines non-stop, I doubt how much you can impact business travel. You can stop kids from seeing their grandparents quite easily by raising ticket prices or taxing jet fuel. I’m not so sure that’s going to keep airlines from serving JFK-SFO direct for business travelers.
- cagenut 7y ago
  you are correct that marginal pricing mechanism are no longer enough to solve this problem. we have moved on to the legislative phase.
  - sokoloff 7y ago
    I guess I’ll believe it when I see private flights banned or airlines banned from running SFO-JFK direct flights. I don’t expect to see that in my lifetime (next 40 years).
    - cagenut 7y ago
      Yes, the number one problem we have right now is neither technological nor scientific. Its the self defeating circular reasoning of normalcy bias and projecting your unwillingness to change on everyone else.
      - sokoloff 7y ago
        It costs me $2500 or so to fly to Europe and stay for a week. Maybe $4K in a high week. I can steer or create a significant multiple of that value by visiting my teams for a week. There’s massive financial incentive for me to take that trip.
        cagenut 7y ago
        yes when the cost of carbon is not accounted for then it creates financial incentives to not just ignore but actively exploit that externality.

sokoloff 7y ago

Given that we already have private jets flying routes that are directly served by airlines non-stop, I doubt how much you can impact business travel. You can stop kids from seeing their grandparents quite easily by raising ticket prices or taxing jet fuel. I’m not so sure that’s going to keep airlines from serving JFK-SFO direct for business travelers.

cagenut 7y ago
you are correct that marginal pricing mechanism are no longer enough to solve this problem. we have moved on to the legislative phase.
- sokoloff 7y ago
  I guess I’ll believe it when I see private flights banned or airlines banned from running SFO-JFK direct flights. I don’t expect to see that in my lifetime (next 40 years).
  - cagenut 7y ago
    Yes, the number one problem we have right now is neither technological nor scientific. Its the self defeating circular reasoning of normalcy bias and projecting your unwillingness to change on everyone else.
    - sokoloff 7y ago
      It costs me $2500 or so to fly to Europe and stay for a week. Maybe $4K in a high week. I can steer or create a significant multiple of that value by visiting my teams for a week. There’s massive financial incentive for me to take that trip.
      - cagenut 7y ago
        yes when the cost of carbon is not accounted for then it creates financial incentives to not just ignore but actively exploit that externality.