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Is it too much to ask the author to define his terms? The nature of truth is subject to an ongoing epistemological debate. The author's unspoken presumption is

Is it too much to ask the author to define his terms? The nature of truth is subject to an ongoing epistemological debate. The author's unspoken presumption is that fallible humans can even approach truth. Is it not more honest in a way if a politician or a criminal accepts that he can not do truth justice, and proceeds with the sausage making? Like an actor winking into the camera, self-irony becomes an important part of political theatre. Audiences decrying the paradoxical nature of time travel or other impossible sci-fi plot elements is declasse. This is how the bitter partisans of the chattering classes appear while harping on the inconsistencies of their opponent's presentation. What else can we expect from Hollywood? An honest politician is a contradiction of terms. It is insulting to expect one's audience to suspend their disbelief for puritan phantasms like honesty in politics. Acknowledge us. Give the readers some credit, we're not all outrage junkies.

Nasrudith 7y ago
Really an honest politican is technically possible but only if and only if the inputs are guided to such via demands. A voter base which accepts the truth or honesty. It is just that it is expected and career suicide to be anti "anti-rhetoric" blunt with unsexy qualified stances and truths. Saying "I will agree to just about anything for farm subsidies because despite less than 10% of the population working in the agricultural sector because my voter base has made it their identity." would be something from a brutal satire.
- Jeff_Brown 7y ago
  In the US today the fraction of the population working in agriculture is about 0.6%[1]. Agriculture is one of the most mechanized and corporate industries we have. [1] https://ourworldindata.org/employment-in-agriculture https://ourworldindata.org/employment-in-agriculture
jessaustin 7y ago
It seems telling to this reader that TFA leaves unmentioned a very important aspect of lying in modern times: lying to oneself. Perhaps this was meant to be ironic. Seeing irony where none is intended is just about the only way I can stomach the output of the war media.
Jeff_Brown 7y ago
> Is it not more honest in a way if a politician or a criminal accepts that he can not do truth justice, and proceeds with the sausage making? No. It's not better. That way lies Russia. If you already believe all politicians are liars, how is it at all helpful for a politician to tell you something you already know -- that he or she is lying? Postmodernism is poison. Don't give up on the truth. Even if it were true that all politicians play loose with the truth, there is an enormous variety to the spectrum. Some dodge uncomfortable questions. Some make unrealistic promises. Some quote out of context. Some exaggerate their accomplishments. Some make things up out of thin air. Some politicians take none of those steps. We tend not to reward them for it. But an enormous number of politicians will not take that last step.
- Zarath 7y ago
  "Postmodernism is poison" If there is anything that postmodernism has taught us. It's that bite-sized "truths" like this can never encompass an actual truth or reveal any meaningful reality.
- aww_dang 7y ago
  >No. It's not better. That way lies Russia. Please don't misread my comment as a prescription towards a political end. It does not follow that I would endorse any politician, nor does it follow that I subscribe to "the ends justify the means". >If you already believe all politicians are liars, how is it at all helpful for a politician to tell you something you already know -- that he or she is lying? I take it as a courtesy when their spiel is over the top and theatrical. It is a small conciliation when they embrace the absurdity of their position and go overboard. The presumption of political truthiness is insulting to me as a viewer. I understand that they are in a position that requires them to lie and cheat. I empathize, but I don't support them or endorse the process. >Don't give up on the truth. In the context of politics, these 'truths' are often highly subjective and ideologically driven. Consider the drug war and all of the studies which were funded/suppressed to justify prohibition. Yet today cannabis is regarded as a panacea by many. Even in the material sciences knowledge is constantly revised. Yet so many are willing to stand on this false summit and beat their chests as if they have reached the apex of understanding. In the case of politics what follows is the coercive force of the state to achieve some ends suggested by their limited understanding. No, I haven't given up on truth. I reject politics as a means to any end. >Some politicians take none of those steps. Again with "This time is different", I'll call this special pleading. Believing in politicians and expecting change is like loaning money to an addict.

Nasrudith 7y ago

Really an honest politican is technically possible but only if and only if the inputs are guided to such via demands. A voter base which accepts the truth or honesty. It is just that it is expected and career suicide to be anti "anti-rhetoric" blunt with unsexy qualified stances and truths. Saying "I will agree to just about anything for farm subsidies because despite less than 10% of the population working in the agricultural sector because my voter base has made it their identity." would be something from a brutal satire.

Jeff_Brown 7y ago
In the US today the fraction of the population working in agriculture is about 0.6%[1]. Agriculture is one of the most mechanized and corporate industries we have. [1] https://ourworldindata.org/employment-in-agriculture https://ourworldindata.org/employment-in-agriculture

jessaustin 7y ago

It seems telling to this reader that TFA leaves unmentioned a very important aspect of lying in modern times: lying to oneself. Perhaps this was meant to be ironic. Seeing irony where none is intended is just about the only way I can stomach the output of the war media.

Jeff_Brown 7y ago

> Is it not more honest in a way if a politician or a criminal accepts that he can not do truth justice, and proceeds with the sausage making? No. It's not better. That way lies Russia. If you already believe all politicians are liars, how is it at all helpful for a politician to tell you something you already know -- that he or she is lying? Postmodernism is poison. Don't give up on the truth. Even if it were true that all politicians play loose with the truth, there is an enormous variety to the spectrum. Some dodge uncomfortable questions. Some make unrealistic promises. Some quote out of context. Some exaggerate their accomplishments. Some make things up out of thin air. Some politicians take none of those steps. We tend not to reward them for it. But an enormous number of politicians will not take that last step.

Zarath 7y ago
"Postmodernism is poison" If there is anything that postmodernism has taught us. It's that bite-sized "truths" like this can never encompass an actual truth or reveal any meaningful reality.
aww_dang 7y ago
>No. It's not better. That way lies Russia. Please don't misread my comment as a prescription towards a political end. It does not follow that I would endorse any politician, nor does it follow that I subscribe to "the ends justify the means". >If you already believe all politicians are liars, how is it at all helpful for a politician to tell you something you already know -- that he or she is lying? I take it as a courtesy when their spiel is over the top and theatrical. It is a small conciliation when they embrace the absurdity of their position and go overboard. The presumption of political truthiness is insulting to me as a viewer. I understand that they are in a position that requires them to lie and cheat. I empathize, but I don't support them or endorse the process. >Don't give up on the truth. In the context of politics, these 'truths' are often highly subjective and ideologically driven. Consider the drug war and all of the studies which were funded/suppressed to justify prohibition. Yet today cannabis is regarded as a panacea by many. Even in the material sciences knowledge is constantly revised. Yet so many are willing to stand on this false summit and beat their chests as if they have reached the apex of understanding. In the case of politics what follows is the coercive force of the state to achieve some ends suggested by their limited understanding. No, I haven't given up on truth. I reject politics as a means to any end. >Some politicians take none of those steps. Again with "This time is different", I'll call this special pleading. Believing in politicians and expecting change is like loaning money to an addict.