4 ms·

Under-developed countries have a unique opportunity to develop sustainable growth. I applaud this, despite it being symbolic. Would great to see Hungary invest

Under-developed countries have a unique opportunity to develop sustainable growth. I applaud this, despite it being symbolic. Would great to see Hungary invest in things such as green tech and fast trains as it develops.

ancarda 7y ago
Have you ever been to Budapest? I've been twice, I wouldn't call it under-developed
- ljcn 7y ago
  Budapest isn't the whole country, but your point is correct, Hungary is certainly a highly developed country. Not G7 levels, but close.
- me_me_me 7y ago
  Hey, I have seen a WW2 documentary I have good idea how whole Eastern Europe looks like. Fields and mud roads /s (i am from eastern Europe). I really wish to know the root cause for persistence of this label. Its not that surprising for US, but surprising amount of western Europeans tend to share this view.
  - ossworkerrights 7y ago
    I am from eastern Europe too. It is fine to try and promote one's country, but denying facts doesn't help us either. Been to Hungary a few times, it lags behind central and western european countries by a high margin. Budapest is fine, but life is pretty rough around there. Anyway we are diverging and diving into open wounds. Edit: As a side note, the persistence of that label might be because of the persistence of our societies in isolating from the majority of our countries, ignoring problems, and calling it progress just because a minority lives way better than the average. Unless we stick our heads up, acknowledge the issues, and solve them, then no amount of political correctness will save us.
  - CalRobert 7y ago
    I suspect it relates to: Relative wealth - it's progressed rapidly but Eastern Europe is still generally poorer than Western. Cultural differences - Eastern Europe has a reputation for far greater cultural conservatism, religiosity, etc. . Perhaps this reputation is unearned, I don't know. It correlates to "out of date" for many western Europeans though. Lack of exposure - plenty of people in Western Europe study French, German, English - fewer study Hungarian. Lack of reference material - for a long time views of Eastern Europe were based entirely on being behind the iron curtain, and we've only had about a generation since then to build material. Media coverage - Based on the news I know that Hungary is run by a far right would-be dictator, or that Poland wants to cut down the last primeval forest in Europe, etc. and not much else. That being said I think it's changing. Slovenia is often viewed in a positive light (I adore Ljubljana for instance, and it's the only country I know with real light pollution legislation!) and if nothing else I see Eastern European cities/countries being recommended as holiday destinations more as time goes on. Though I'm an American who lives in Ireland. Not sure if views are changing in the states; some people seem to think Ireland is still mostly thatched cottages and sheep farms.
  - riffraff 7y ago
    > but surprising amount of western Europeans tend to share this view. People are ignorant and have prejudices, and prejudices don't shake easily. It's not like there aren't similar prejudices about western Europe (Italy is filled with crime! Irish are drunk! etc). The rise of low cost flight in Europe has thrown down barriers and people travel more, but it's only a tiny minority of the population who decides to travel to eastern european destinations.
loriverkutya 7y ago
Hungary is pretty far from underdeveloped :) http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/underdeveloped-countries/ http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/underdeveloped-co... We have nuclear power plants and stuff.
- ossworkerrights 7y ago
  So do 3rd world countries. It's all fun and games in Budapest, until you go around in villages where people walk barefoot. Last time i've been there I thought about taking pictures as the nationalist government of hungary does its best to hide it. But the issue is not that, the thing is it does have an opportunity to develop into something green, as do most east EU countries.
  - loriverkutya 7y ago
    Yeah, I grown up in a village at the north-eastern (the least developed part of the country) border with 2500 people living there. My first 10 years was during socialism. Even my “underdeveloped” village has now 24/7 electricity, water, sewer system, gas pipelines for heating, CATV and ADSL internet. So please stop try to prove me, that it is a 3rd world country.
    - ossworkerrights 7y ago
      How many of these villages, once you leave the bubble, have roma people living in mud-homes and other vulnerable people that you so cleverly chose to ignore, and claim the everything is fine?
      - saiya-jin 7y ago
        Roma people are a bit special, they live on the edge of society and try hard to not integrate (prevalent alcoholism, other addictions and frequent incest certainly don't help). We can send 1000 Roma people into NY Central park and bam! you have barefoot kids running all around Manhattan 24/7 picking trash cans. That doesn't suddenly make US a 3rd world country, does it.
navigatesol 7y ago
So poorer countries are going to skip a vital step in their development process and start producing "green tech" and "fast trains", easy as that? Doubt it.
- swebs 7y ago
  Well yeah. This isn't a game like Civilization where countries lagging behind have to develop the steam engine while everyone else is on space age tech. You can put solar panels in Africa today.
  - fabatka 7y ago
    If you talk strictly about technology, you may be right. But I wonder if technological advancement without organic societal advancement may be even detrimental. Something along the lines what Isaac Asimov said: "The saddest aspect of life right now is that science gathers knowledge faster than society gathers wisdom."

ancarda 7y ago

Have you ever been to Budapest? I've been twice, I wouldn't call it under-developed

ljcn 7y ago
Budapest isn't the whole country, but your point is correct, Hungary is certainly a highly developed country. Not G7 levels, but close.
me_me_me 7y ago
Hey, I have seen a WW2 documentary I have good idea how whole Eastern Europe looks like. Fields and mud roads /s (i am from eastern Europe). I really wish to know the root cause for persistence of this label. Its not that surprising for US, but surprising amount of western Europeans tend to share this view.
- ossworkerrights 7y ago
  I am from eastern Europe too. It is fine to try and promote one's country, but denying facts doesn't help us either. Been to Hungary a few times, it lags behind central and western european countries by a high margin. Budapest is fine, but life is pretty rough around there. Anyway we are diverging and diving into open wounds. Edit: As a side note, the persistence of that label might be because of the persistence of our societies in isolating from the majority of our countries, ignoring problems, and calling it progress just because a minority lives way better than the average. Unless we stick our heads up, acknowledge the issues, and solve them, then no amount of political correctness will save us.
- CalRobert 7y ago
  I suspect it relates to: Relative wealth - it's progressed rapidly but Eastern Europe is still generally poorer than Western. Cultural differences - Eastern Europe has a reputation for far greater cultural conservatism, religiosity, etc. . Perhaps this reputation is unearned, I don't know. It correlates to "out of date" for many western Europeans though. Lack of exposure - plenty of people in Western Europe study French, German, English - fewer study Hungarian. Lack of reference material - for a long time views of Eastern Europe were based entirely on being behind the iron curtain, and we've only had about a generation since then to build material. Media coverage - Based on the news I know that Hungary is run by a far right would-be dictator, or that Poland wants to cut down the last primeval forest in Europe, etc. and not much else. That being said I think it's changing. Slovenia is often viewed in a positive light (I adore Ljubljana for instance, and it's the only country I know with real light pollution legislation!) and if nothing else I see Eastern European cities/countries being recommended as holiday destinations more as time goes on. Though I'm an American who lives in Ireland. Not sure if views are changing in the states; some people seem to think Ireland is still mostly thatched cottages and sheep farms.
- riffraff 7y ago
  > but surprising amount of western Europeans tend to share this view. People are ignorant and have prejudices, and prejudices don't shake easily. It's not like there aren't similar prejudices about western Europe (Italy is filled with crime! Irish are drunk! etc). The rise of low cost flight in Europe has thrown down barriers and people travel more, but it's only a tiny minority of the population who decides to travel to eastern european destinations.

loriverkutya 7y ago

Hungary is pretty far from underdeveloped :) http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/underdeveloped-countries/ http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/underdeveloped-co... We have nuclear power plants and stuff.

ossworkerrights 7y ago
So do 3rd world countries. It's all fun and games in Budapest, until you go around in villages where people walk barefoot. Last time i've been there I thought about taking pictures as the nationalist government of hungary does its best to hide it. But the issue is not that, the thing is it does have an opportunity to develop into something green, as do most east EU countries.
- loriverkutya 7y ago
  Yeah, I grown up in a village at the north-eastern (the least developed part of the country) border with 2500 people living there. My first 10 years was during socialism. Even my “underdeveloped” village has now 24/7 electricity, water, sewer system, gas pipelines for heating, CATV and ADSL internet. So please stop try to prove me, that it is a 3rd world country.
  - ossworkerrights 7y ago
    How many of these villages, once you leave the bubble, have roma people living in mud-homes and other vulnerable people that you so cleverly chose to ignore, and claim the everything is fine?
    - saiya-jin 7y ago
      Roma people are a bit special, they live on the edge of society and try hard to not integrate (prevalent alcoholism, other addictions and frequent incest certainly don't help). We can send 1000 Roma people into NY Central park and bam! you have barefoot kids running all around Manhattan 24/7 picking trash cans. That doesn't suddenly make US a 3rd world country, does it.

navigatesol 7y ago

So poorer countries are going to skip a vital step in their development process and start producing "green tech" and "fast trains", easy as that? Doubt it.

swebs 7y ago
Well yeah. This isn't a game like Civilization where countries lagging behind have to develop the steam engine while everyone else is on space age tech. You can put solar panels in Africa today.
- fabatka 7y ago
  If you talk strictly about technology, you may be right. But I wonder if technological advancement without organic societal advancement may be even detrimental. Something along the lines what Isaac Asimov said: "The saddest aspect of life right now is that science gathers knowledge faster than society gathers wisdom."