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> "пешеход, совершивший переход проезжей части в неположенном месте" Isn't that what I wrote? :) Anyway, doesn't have the same ring to it, does it? Compare the
by romwell 7y ago
> "пешеход, совершивший переход проезжей части в неположенном месте"
Isn't that what I wrote? :) Anyway, doesn't have the same ring to it, does it? Compare the title of the article with
"Self-Driving Uber in Crash Wasn't Programmed to Spot Pedestrians Crossing the Street Anywhere Except Crosswalks".
Which one makes Uber look less competent?
>You cannot label a person a "speeder" or "tailgater" in Russian too. Wow! Languages are fun indeed.
Well, yes! These aren't actions that warrant labeling a person in Russian. That tells you something indeed.
However, as verbs, the do have direct translations: превышать (to speed), висеть на хвосте (to tailgate).
Claim: "Jaywalking" does not translate to anything but literal dictionary definition like the one you provided in any language other than English, where it also has a clearly negative connotation.
Etymology: early 20th century: from jay in the colloquial sense ‘silly person’ + walk.
From Wikipedia: The term "jaywalking" is primarily a North American concept where laws restrict pedestrian use of public roads. In other countries such as the United Kingdom, the word is not generally used and there are no laws limiting how pedestrians can use public highways.
Also from Wikipedia: The word jaywalk is not historically neutral.[5] It is a compound word derived from the word jay, an inexperienced person and a curse word that originated in the early 1900s, and walk. Automobile interests in the US took up the cause of labeling and scorning jaywalkers in the 1910s and early 1920s, by then the earlier term of "jay driver" was declining in use.
I mean, it's all right there, with references. Again, what specifically are you arguing? That Wikipedia is wrong?
- pandaman 7y agoYou wrote that I cannot translate it to any other language. I translated it to Russian, Russian is another language so it is what you wrote. Translating "проезжая часть" as "street" and then complaining that nobody knows what "street" means does not have the same ring to it, sure. >Well, yes! These aren't actions that warrant labeling a person in Russian. That tells you something indeed. I am now really curious. What does it tell? That speeding and tailgating are also invented by the auto-industry? >However, as verbs, the do have direct translations: превышать (to speed), висеть на хвосте (to tailgate). So? Jaywalking also has a direct translation as a verb "нарушать (правила перехода)". >I mean, it's all right there, with references. Again, what specifically are you arguing? That Wikipedia is wrong? I am arguing that jaywalking as a punishable offense exists outside the US, that's all. It's right there, in Wikipedia. Even in UK it's forbidden on "motorways" according to Wikipedia.
- romwell 7y agoMotorways are what we'd call highways here. Specifically, they are not streets. The concept of "crossing a street being a thing to lampoon" doesn't exist in the UK. I am not going to argue about the origins of the derogatory term anymore: the history is there. My point is that other countries don't have a derogatory term for people crossing the street. For Russian, that'd be like "мудак", but specifically and only applicable to people crossing the street. Like "мудоход". We don't have "мудоход", we don't fine for "мудоходство". That's the difference in language I am trying to highlight.
- pandaman 7y agoHave you ever been to the US? Nobody uses "jaywalker" as an insult. It's as insulting as Russian "разиня" with the exception that it's actually a word used in the law. Just imagine Russian code of law with articles for "мудоходство" or "распиздяйство"...
- romwell 7y agoI've been living in the US for over half my life now :) And yes, jaywalking is not a neutral word, and neither is "разиня" (I have exaggerated the translation, of course). Compare: Мой научный руководитель перешёл улицу в неположенном месте. Мой научный руководитель - разиня. Don't you see a difference between that two? You wouldn't say the latter within the earshot of the person in question, perhaps.
- pandaman 7y agoI never claimed it's neutral, breakin the law is not and should not be neutral in this country. So I don't see the point you are making any more and, I am sorry to say that, not interested to learn it.
- romwell 7y agoI just think that "Self-driving Uber wasn't programmed to detect people outside of crosswalks" would have been both a more precise title and more respectful to the victim. Sorry for dragging this out for so long! On the off-topic, I highly recommend Orwell's brilliant essay "Politics and the English Language"[1] It deals with the subject of how choice of words affects thought, and on the danger of canned phrases. A parallel work, in Russian, is Канцелярит[2], by Чуковский (a chapter from his book). If you've already read both, would love to hear your thoughts; if not, then hope that this would be a good thing you could get out of this conversation :) (I think you'd enjoy reading both as someone who speaks both languages) [1]https://www.orwell.ru/library/essays/politics/english/e_polit https://www.orwell.ru/library/essays/politics/english/e_poli... [2]http://vivovoco.astronet.ru/VV/BOOKS/LANG/LANG_6.HTM http://vivovoco.astronet.ru/VV/BOOKS/LANG/LANG_6.HTM