5 ms·

not a good time to be a foreign tech worker in the US

gtoprak 7y ago
I don't think it's fair to generalize on a sensitive topic like this. People are already scrutinized enough when it comes to getting a working visa.
- jolmg 7y ago
  Rather they might be sympathizing because it might be inevitable for others to generalize like that.
- daseiner1 7y ago
  my point is innocent people are going to be unduly scrutinized further. plus our current admin as-is doesn’t exactly love foreign workers (a massive understatement)
  - remarkEon 7y ago
    I don’t doubt that this will happen, but it’s perfectly within the rights of the United States to apply more scrutiny to e.g. Chinese nationals seeking employment at tech companies. We’re in a trade war with them and a de facto state of cyberwar. It’s not at all unreasonable to expect the US Government to look a little more closely at people coming here to work in tech, especially for roles in sensitive positions.
    - longerthoughts 7y ago
      Nobody said it wasn't reasonable. They're saying this will make your life suck more if you're a foreign worker regardless of whether or not you're a spy. Even if you view it as a necessary evil, it can still suck for people doing nothing wrong.
xienze 7y ago
I imagine most of the tech spying/IP theft doesn’t even happen on US soil. Let employees in e.g., China access your internal network — what could possibly go wrong?
- mcqueenjordan 7y ago
  For many BigCos, it is explicitly forbidden to access the network in certain countries, or bring any company devices into those countries.
rdtsc 7y ago
> not a good time to be a foreign tech worker in the US —- Ali Alzabarah, a Saudi citizen - was accused of accessing the personal information of more than 6,000 Twitter accounts in 2015 on behalf of Saudi Arabia. —- Well if they plan on spying for their government, don’t think we’d want them to have a great time? Don’t think that is too controversial.
- mc3 7y ago
  Maybe. But, that doesn't address the parent comment's meaning. I interpret it as saying that both spying and non-spying foreign tech workers might be affected by the same brush tar.
JohnFen 7y ago
My concern is that companies and people will laser-focus on the "foreign tech worker" part as if they are the sole threat vector. That presents an unacceptable blind spot, not to mention getting people to think that foreigners are likely to be spies. In practice, it's not really much more difficult to find a US citizen tech worker who'd be willing to take a few hundred thousand to do the same thing (and it's something that happens routinely), and completely ignores the fact that US intelligence agencies also have a long-running habit of getting their spies hired by US companies too.
- remarkEon 7y ago
  The difference of course is that when the US intelligence agencies get US workers to spy at US companies they do so for the US government - oh and the countries we see fit to spy on already have fairly severe employment restrictions such that it’s not easy for an American to get a job in one of their companies. There’s an asymmetry that exists here.
  - JohnFen 7y ago
    > The difference of course is that when the US intelligence agencies get US workers to spy at US companies they do so for the US government From a security point of view, that's a distinction without a difference.
    - daseiner1 7y ago
      not from a national security point of view. well, more accurately it kicks the can further down the line to the security of wherever and whoever the government is using for that data.
  - liability 7y ago
    > oh and the countries we see fit to spy on already have fairly severe employment restrictions such that it’s not easy for an American to get a job in one of their companies I'm not sure who you think America spies on, but the real list is much bigger than you probably think, and includes countries considered American allies (for instance, the UK and Germany.)

I don't think it's fair to generalize on a sensitive topic like this. People are already scrutinized enough when it comes to getting a working visa.

jolmg 7y ago
Rather they might be sympathizing because it might be inevitable for others to generalize like that.
daseiner1 7y ago
my point is innocent people are going to be unduly scrutinized further. plus our current admin as-is doesn’t exactly love foreign workers (a massive understatement)
- remarkEon 7y ago
  I don’t doubt that this will happen, but it’s perfectly within the rights of the United States to apply more scrutiny to e.g. Chinese nationals seeking employment at tech companies. We’re in a trade war with them and a de facto state of cyberwar. It’s not at all unreasonable to expect the US Government to look a little more closely at people coming here to work in tech, especially for roles in sensitive positions.
  - longerthoughts 7y ago
    Nobody said it wasn't reasonable. They're saying this will make your life suck more if you're a foreign worker regardless of whether or not you're a spy. Even if you view it as a necessary evil, it can still suck for people doing nothing wrong.

xienze 7y ago

I imagine most of the tech spying/IP theft doesn’t even happen on US soil. Let employees in e.g., China access your internal network — what could possibly go wrong?

mcqueenjordan 7y ago
For many BigCos, it is explicitly forbidden to access the network in certain countries, or bring any company devices into those countries.

rdtsc 7y ago

> not a good time to be a foreign tech worker in the US —- Ali Alzabarah, a Saudi citizen - was accused of accessing the personal information of more than 6,000 Twitter accounts in 2015 on behalf of Saudi Arabia. —- Well if they plan on spying for their government, don’t think we’d want them to have a great time? Don’t think that is too controversial.

mc3 7y ago
Maybe. But, that doesn't address the parent comment's meaning. I interpret it as saying that both spying and non-spying foreign tech workers might be affected by the same brush tar.

JohnFen 7y ago

My concern is that companies and people will laser-focus on the "foreign tech worker" part as if they are the sole threat vector. That presents an unacceptable blind spot, not to mention getting people to think that foreigners are likely to be spies. In practice, it's not really much more difficult to find a US citizen tech worker who'd be willing to take a few hundred thousand to do the same thing (and it's something that happens routinely), and completely ignores the fact that US intelligence agencies also have a long-running habit of getting their spies hired by US companies too.

remarkEon 7y ago
The difference of course is that when the US intelligence agencies get US workers to spy at US companies they do so for the US government - oh and the countries we see fit to spy on already have fairly severe employment restrictions such that it’s not easy for an American to get a job in one of their companies. There’s an asymmetry that exists here.
- JohnFen 7y ago
  > The difference of course is that when the US intelligence agencies get US workers to spy at US companies they do so for the US government From a security point of view, that's a distinction without a difference.
  - daseiner1 7y ago
    not from a national security point of view. well, more accurately it kicks the can further down the line to the security of wherever and whoever the government is using for that data.
- liability 7y ago
  > oh and the countries we see fit to spy on already have fairly severe employment restrictions such that it’s not easy for an American to get a job in one of their companies I'm not sure who you think America spies on, but the real list is much bigger than you probably think, and includes countries considered American allies (for instance, the UK and Germany.)