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I don't see why you think I'm not educated on the topic. I, at least, can discern what's relevant to the question of which way wealth is transferred. I am awar

I don't see why you think I'm not educated on the topic. I, at least, can discern what's relevant to the question of which way wealth is transferred. I am aware of the complaints about how banks process transactions in and out of customer accounts. It's a moot point for two reasons. First, the complaint boils down to whether a bank making a checking account available is also an agreement to extend small value, short term loans to people. If you don't try to float checks then you will not be hit with overdraft fees. It's as simple as that. Second, it's irrelevant where someone spends their money. If someone doesn't earn more than it costs to maintain their lifestyle their spending habits only impact how much they get from others, not how wealthy they are. As far as preexisting conditions go, denial of coverage on that basis has been illegal for ten years. The only reason to bring it up is because you want to prompt an emotional response from people who are ignorant. Profits and productivity are, again, irrelevant. If the question is "Which way does wealth transfer?" The answer is simple to discern and simply requires that we know how much it costs to survive and how much a person earns. We know both of this things on average nationally and wealth is transferred from the top 40% to the bottom 60%. I linked to the government report that demonstrates this. As far as this unrelated statement goes: >Your logic also offers zero explanation why wealth is concentrating towards the wealthy because wealth transfer would imply that, you know, it's actually going to the poor people. Someone can create $1000/year in value, and another person comes up short by $300/year in survival. The first person transfers wealth down to the second person while still becoming wealthier. This is pretty basic stuff.

fzeroracer 7y ago
First, I can tell that you've never experienced poverty in your life because saying it's 'as simple as that' ignores the times when poor people need to purchase something right away. They deposit a check into their account, then go shopping because that money SHOULD BE IN THEIR ACCOUNT and they desperately need things like food or basic amenities. Then they get pinged with overdraft fees because the bank decided not to cash that check right away, instead delaying it so they can collect overdraft fees. As for your second point, calling 'profit and productivity irrelevant' is ridiculously flippant because profit and productivity doesn't come from the void. It's generated by people. So let me illustrate: Person A is 'creating' $1000/year in value. Person B is 'short' $300/year in order to survive. Person A employs Person B. The reason why Person B is short of funds is because Person A is earning their value from Person B and not properly distributing that wealth down through labor to Person B. Ergo, the situation isn't some sort of 'wealth transfer', it's the result of someone not being fairly compensated for their work. What you're calling 'wealth transfer' is the result of money accumulating towards the top, which results in the wealthy having to either pay more to support the bottom percent or let them die. Software engineers generate many more times their income in value to the companies that employ them. Which means money floats to the top as companies try to depress wages to maximize profit margins.
- UnpossibleJim 7y ago
  I don't think you can describe a person's life experience just because they don't react emotionally in a single online discussion board. That's horribly unfair and a bit out of line, to be honest.
  - fzeroracer 7y ago
    As opposed to painting people in poverty with a broad brush, saying that they either destroy value or don't generate life-sustaining value? Considering I grew up in abject poverty, I'm sorry but I'm not going to let remarks like that fly. That doesn't deserve a pass.
    - jki275 7y ago
      Most of them don't. And I grew up in poverty too. My first real paid job paid three dollars an hour for farmwork -- in the 90s, and I thought I was living like a king.
    - wang_li 7y ago
      A) It is objectively true that there is a cohort of poor people who produce nothing of economic value and who consume a disproportionate share of government services through vandalism, sanitation problems, assistance, and etc. B) The inability to produce enough to sustain yourself is the basis for defining poverty.
- wang_li 7y ago
  I grew up in the seventies and lived through the Carter presidency. And having had a period of my life where I was using check cashing services to pay off the previous check cashing service, I can say with relative surety that unless you were born during the depression, my poverty is as big as your poverty. That's not how banks work. You go in and deposit a check they give you a receipt which tells you what day the deposit will post and when the full amount of the funds will be available. You are, again, functionally complaining that a checking account can't be used to force a bank to give you an interest free loan and justifying it by saying "desperately need [...] food or basic amenities." Your economic model is simplistic. People with no marketable skill or knowledge are not having the value they create stolen from them. The value that comes from the businesses they work at comes from the founders, the investors, the people who had the idea, who developed the product and so on.

fzeroracer 7y ago

First, I can tell that you've never experienced poverty in your life because saying it's 'as simple as that' ignores the times when poor people need to purchase something right away. They deposit a check into their account, then go shopping because that money SHOULD BE IN THEIR ACCOUNT and they desperately need things like food or basic amenities. Then they get pinged with overdraft fees because the bank decided not to cash that check right away, instead delaying it so they can collect overdraft fees. As for your second point, calling 'profit and productivity irrelevant' is ridiculously flippant because profit and productivity doesn't come from the void. It's generated by people. So let me illustrate: Person A is 'creating' $1000/year in value. Person B is 'short' $300/year in order to survive. Person A employs Person B. The reason why Person B is short of funds is because Person A is earning their value from Person B and not properly distributing that wealth down through labor to Person B. Ergo, the situation isn't some sort of 'wealth transfer', it's the result of someone not being fairly compensated for their work. What you're calling 'wealth transfer' is the result of money accumulating towards the top, which results in the wealthy having to either pay more to support the bottom percent or let them die. Software engineers generate many more times their income in value to the companies that employ them. Which means money floats to the top as companies try to depress wages to maximize profit margins.

UnpossibleJim 7y ago
I don't think you can describe a person's life experience just because they don't react emotionally in a single online discussion board. That's horribly unfair and a bit out of line, to be honest.
- fzeroracer 7y ago
  As opposed to painting people in poverty with a broad brush, saying that they either destroy value or don't generate life-sustaining value? Considering I grew up in abject poverty, I'm sorry but I'm not going to let remarks like that fly. That doesn't deserve a pass.
  - jki275 7y ago
    Most of them don't. And I grew up in poverty too. My first real paid job paid three dollars an hour for farmwork -- in the 90s, and I thought I was living like a king.
  - wang_li 7y ago
    A) It is objectively true that there is a cohort of poor people who produce nothing of economic value and who consume a disproportionate share of government services through vandalism, sanitation problems, assistance, and etc. B) The inability to produce enough to sustain yourself is the basis for defining poverty.
wang_li 7y ago
I grew up in the seventies and lived through the Carter presidency. And having had a period of my life where I was using check cashing services to pay off the previous check cashing service, I can say with relative surety that unless you were born during the depression, my poverty is as big as your poverty. That's not how banks work. You go in and deposit a check they give you a receipt which tells you what day the deposit will post and when the full amount of the funds will be available. You are, again, functionally complaining that a checking account can't be used to force a bank to give you an interest free loan and justifying it by saying "desperately need [...] food or basic amenities." Your economic model is simplistic. People with no marketable skill or knowledge are not having the value they create stolen from them. The value that comes from the businesses they work at comes from the founders, the investors, the people who had the idea, who developed the product and so on.