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I know more people who are experimenting with microdosing LSD than who have a daily meditation practice.

throw1234651234 7y ago
Not surprising. There are no proven benefits to meditation. The prefrontal cortex activity touted by Kelly McGonigal is achieved through any other focused activity, like playing video games.
- cc81 7y ago
  There are no proven benefits to micro dosing LSD either. But it is easier I guess.
  - skyyler 7y ago
    Is the challenge what makes meditation good?
    - rolltiide 7y ago
      The gatekeeping
- agota 7y ago
  Do you have a source for the claim that playing video games has the same effect on the prefrontal cortex as meditation? Seems extremely unlikely, but I'm curious, so I would appreciate a link.
  - throw1234651234 7y ago
    https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/neuronarrative/201403/how-video-games-can-help-us-achieve-mindfulness https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/neuronarrative/20140...
    - agota 7y ago
      The article you provided doesn't back up the claim that playing video games has the same effect on the prefrontal cortex as meditation. 1. It discusses video games that were created with a specific purpose of improving ability to focus. 2. It mentions that researchers have a hypothesis that these games will improve ability to focus. 3. It mentions that there is an ongoing research into what's happening in the brain when people play these games. I don't see how you can take this and draw a conclusion that video games have the same effect on the prefrontal cortex as meditation. And your initial claim was broader than that, you said that "prefrontal cortex activity touted by Kelly McGonigal is achieved through any other focused activity", which appears to be completely baseless.
      - throw1234651234 7y ago
        "I don't see how you can take this and draw a conclusion that video games have the same effect on the prefrontal cortex as meditation." See below. "Lots of activities can boost the size of various parts of the pre-frontal cortex – video games, for example – but it’s the disconnection of our mind from its “stress center” that seems to give rise to a range of physical as well as mental health benefits, says Taren." https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/what-does-mindfulness-meditation-do-to-your-brain/ https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/what-does-mi... The funny thing is that, as mentioned before, I almost bought into the meditation hype too.
        agota 7y ago
        "Lots of activities can boost the size of various parts of the pre-frontal cortex – video games, for example" This doesn't mean that: 1. Any activity that requires focus has the same effect on the prefrontal cortex of meditation. 2. Video games have the same effect on the prefrontal cortex as meditation. Also, using this article to support your position is an interesting choice, given that you have previously said that "There are no proven benefits to meditation" and this article discusses proven benefits of meditation. Actually, the very quote you provided mentions "range of physical as well as mental health benefits", presumably referring to meditation (or "mindfulness practice").
  - rabidrat 7y ago
    There are two broad types of meditation: concentration, and reflection. I can see how e.g. video games could be a kind of concentration practice. The benefit of deliberate meditation concentration practice is that you learn to apply concentration in non-stimulating circumstances (or rather, you learn that you don't need graphics, meaningful choices, tight timing, or points to stimulate your alertness). Most beginner meditation falls under concentration (brain-settling) practices. Then there is the reflection/insight practice, in which your mind pays deliberate attention to its own internal machinations. With the right touch--neither too tight, nor too loose--you can maintain an appropriate distance so that you can see what's going on, but not get pulled under. I find it difficult to believe that any activity other than mental reflection, no matter how focused, would be an effective substitute.
    - throw1234651234 7y ago
      I don't understand the difference between this and thinking about yourself. I wanted to believe in all this Eastern stuff, I really did. Spent a lot of time on it too, find it hard to. I know mindfulness is a huge trend right now, but it's not even defined "pay attention without judgement."
- kranner 7y ago
  > There are no proven benefits to meditation. There are so many studies with proven benefits the topic has its own Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Research_on_meditation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Research_on_meditation Meditation is much more than focusing practice. Playing video games is not in any way equivalent.
  - throw1234651234 7y ago
    Here is a link explaining that a lot of meditation studies are funded by those starting the cult (e.g. Transcendental Meditation, which involves mumbling random gibberish taught to you by a "master"): https://www.healthnewsreview.org/2016/06/conflicts-of-interest-abound-in-nyt-post-on-transcendental-meditation/ https://www.healthnewsreview.org/2016/06/conflicts-of-intere...
  - Kaveren 7y ago
    Mindfulness meditation is probably useless [0]. Other forms of meditation are obvious scams [1]. It's possible that there are some particular forms of meditation which are actually scientifically valid, but a huge portion of the field suffers from psuedoscience. I think it's pretty likely meditation is placebo and conditioning. People like mysticism that comes from the East. Acupuncture is the same deal. Amusing to note the "Weaknesses in historic meditation and mindfulness research" section on the link you posted. [0] https://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/mindfulness-no-better-than-watching-tv/ https://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/mindfulness-no... [1] https://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/transcendental-meditation-pseudoscience/ https://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/transcendental...

Not surprising. There are no proven benefits to meditation. The prefrontal cortex activity touted by Kelly McGonigal is achieved through any other focused activity, like playing video games.

cc81 7y ago
There are no proven benefits to micro dosing LSD either. But it is easier I guess.
- skyyler 7y ago
  Is the challenge what makes meditation good?
  - rolltiide 7y ago
    The gatekeeping
agota 7y ago
Do you have a source for the claim that playing video games has the same effect on the prefrontal cortex as meditation? Seems extremely unlikely, but I'm curious, so I would appreciate a link.
- throw1234651234 7y ago
  https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/neuronarrative/201403/how-video-games-can-help-us-achieve-mindfulness https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/neuronarrative/20140...
  - agota 7y ago
    The article you provided doesn't back up the claim that playing video games has the same effect on the prefrontal cortex as meditation. 1. It discusses video games that were created with a specific purpose of improving ability to focus. 2. It mentions that researchers have a hypothesis that these games will improve ability to focus. 3. It mentions that there is an ongoing research into what's happening in the brain when people play these games. I don't see how you can take this and draw a conclusion that video games have the same effect on the prefrontal cortex as meditation. And your initial claim was broader than that, you said that "prefrontal cortex activity touted by Kelly McGonigal is achieved through any other focused activity", which appears to be completely baseless.
    - throw1234651234 7y ago
      "I don't see how you can take this and draw a conclusion that video games have the same effect on the prefrontal cortex as meditation." See below. "Lots of activities can boost the size of various parts of the pre-frontal cortex – video games, for example – but it’s the disconnection of our mind from its “stress center” that seems to give rise to a range of physical as well as mental health benefits, says Taren." https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/what-does-mindfulness-meditation-do-to-your-brain/ https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/what-does-mi... The funny thing is that, as mentioned before, I almost bought into the meditation hype too.
      - agota 7y ago
        "Lots of activities can boost the size of various parts of the pre-frontal cortex – video games, for example" This doesn't mean that: 1. Any activity that requires focus has the same effect on the prefrontal cortex of meditation. 2. Video games have the same effect on the prefrontal cortex as meditation. Also, using this article to support your position is an interesting choice, given that you have previously said that "There are no proven benefits to meditation" and this article discusses proven benefits of meditation. Actually, the very quote you provided mentions "range of physical as well as mental health benefits", presumably referring to meditation (or "mindfulness practice").
- rabidrat 7y ago
  There are two broad types of meditation: concentration, and reflection. I can see how e.g. video games could be a kind of concentration practice. The benefit of deliberate meditation concentration practice is that you learn to apply concentration in non-stimulating circumstances (or rather, you learn that you don't need graphics, meaningful choices, tight timing, or points to stimulate your alertness). Most beginner meditation falls under concentration (brain-settling) practices. Then there is the reflection/insight practice, in which your mind pays deliberate attention to its own internal machinations. With the right touch--neither too tight, nor too loose--you can maintain an appropriate distance so that you can see what's going on, but not get pulled under. I find it difficult to believe that any activity other than mental reflection, no matter how focused, would be an effective substitute.
  - throw1234651234 7y ago
    I don't understand the difference between this and thinking about yourself. I wanted to believe in all this Eastern stuff, I really did. Spent a lot of time on it too, find it hard to. I know mindfulness is a huge trend right now, but it's not even defined "pay attention without judgement."
kranner 7y ago
> There are no proven benefits to meditation. There are so many studies with proven benefits the topic has its own Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Research_on_meditation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Research_on_meditation Meditation is much more than focusing practice. Playing video games is not in any way equivalent.
- throw1234651234 7y ago
  Here is a link explaining that a lot of meditation studies are funded by those starting the cult (e.g. Transcendental Meditation, which involves mumbling random gibberish taught to you by a "master"): https://www.healthnewsreview.org/2016/06/conflicts-of-interest-abound-in-nyt-post-on-transcendental-meditation/ https://www.healthnewsreview.org/2016/06/conflicts-of-intere...
- Kaveren 7y ago
  Mindfulness meditation is probably useless [0]. Other forms of meditation are obvious scams [1]. It's possible that there are some particular forms of meditation which are actually scientifically valid, but a huge portion of the field suffers from psuedoscience. I think it's pretty likely meditation is placebo and conditioning. People like mysticism that comes from the East. Acupuncture is the same deal. Amusing to note the "Weaknesses in historic meditation and mindfulness research" section on the link you posted. [0] https://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/mindfulness-no-better-than-watching-tv/ https://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/mindfulness-no... [1] https://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/transcendental-meditation-pseudoscience/ https://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/transcendental...