6 ms·

World Ice Theory and the Supernatural Imaginary of the Third Reich (2017)

42 points by lermontov 7y ago

avgeek23 7y ago
I remember reading about how hitler supported missions to Tibet in search of a superweapon/power that will take the riech further
- thepaperone 7y ago
  Then you'd believe anything. They were studying genealogy as the Aryans that they claimed descent also conquered that region in prehistory.
Nasrudith 7y ago
Really totalitarians are all about believing their own flattering lies. Witness the "foes are strong and weak at the same time" hallmark and notice how incoherent and terrible their estimation of foes are. It is "good" at justifying travesties but incoherent doublethink doesn't lend well to strategy.
- vkou 7y ago
  Plenty of non-totalitarian groups display these kinds of cognitive dissonances. This is not a unique, or even particularly noteworthy trait. It has little to no descriptive power.
empath75 7y ago
They present it as if it’s ridiculous (and it is) but is it any more ridiculous than the mainstream creation myths that millions and millions of completely sane and rational people believe or claim to believe now?
- ouid 7y ago
  just because they're in the majority doesn't mean they're sane, imo.
  - rsynnott 7y ago
    I’m fairly sure the majority of people don’t believe in literalist young earth creationism. It’s mostly a thing in certain Protestant sects, and regionally (especially in Turkey) in Islam. If you’re talking about the vaguer “evolution happens, but, er, maybe a deity did something non-specific about it”, then that’s more common, granted.
    - galaxyLogic 7y ago
      I never quite understood why many religious people have a problem with Evolution. If God created everything, surely he could create Evolution as well.
      - nealeratzlaff 7y ago
        From a lot of otherwise science-accepting people I grew up with, the issue isn't that penguins or insects adapted to their environment in unique ways. The issue lies in humans coming from monkeys. People I've known have a hard time with us not being created as special companions for the creator.
        galaxyLogic 7y ago
        I think this ideology is partly because being a God's special companion means you can rule over others. So it's a convenient patriarchal fiction for many who want to rule over others, with God on Their Side.
      - djokkataja 7y ago
        I think it's about the sense of personal meaning and importance one gets: if God personally crafted you down to the tips of your toes, that makes you feel more important and like your life is more meaningful than if God created some system (evolution) which just happened to eventually result in you at the current point in time.
- gumby 7y ago
  And the integration of religious rituals and beliefs into supposedly secular governments? Many us government ceremonies begin with a religious guru (e.g. congressional chaplain opening prayer) and have for decades. Occult iconography and religious inscriptions appear on instruments of government like banknotes, buildings and the like.
galaxyLogic 7y ago
Totalitarianism has to rely on lies. If people knew the truth and especially if everybody knew that everybody else also knows the truth they would surely revolt. The Emperor's New Clothes. The main lie about totalitarianism is that some people are inherently entitled to rule over others. The extra totally crazy lies are kind of a Canary in Coalmine, does anybody dare to confront them? If not then the big lie about the power of the totalitarian government is safe too.
naringas 7y ago
there is a group of conspiracy theories around the idea the all those "scientific occultism" and "psychological warfare" ventures continued in the USA among programs such as MKULTRA and others (say the theories) not yet declassified because they were more successful. I suppose you could categorize these close to "Hitler retired in Argentina" and similar "Nazism went on" conspiracies.
- galaxyLogic 7y ago
  To quote a famous movie: The biggest stunt Devil ever played on us was he made us believe he doesn't exist. "Nazism" is still going on. Nazism is basically the same thing as totalitarianism in general. It never went away in many parts of the world. There are even Neo-Nazis in the USA.
  - aksss 7y ago
    The Nazi party implemented a totalitarian form of government. Totalitarianism predated Nazis and is still a common form of government around the world. Classic case of "A is an example of B, but not all B are A". E.g. calling Stalin a Nazi would be inaccurate. He fought Nazis, but was still a totalitarian of the highest order, arguably with a more heinous legacy (if measured in body count, geographic impact, duration of influence). Assad is a current totalitarian, along with many regimes in Africa. Describing these as regimes as Nazis would be a very inarticulate description, even though I'd get your point ("he bad").
    - galaxyLogic 7y ago
      I think the differences between different totalitarian governments is of little significance. What is important is that they all want to eradicate democratic processes as much as possible. So whether you call them "Fascists" (in Italy) or "Nazis" in Germany or "Stalinist" (in Soviet Union) is fine, but really they all are more or less the same, authoritarian, totalitarian, anti-democratic. That is why Neo-Nazis call themselves Neo-Nazis. They want to be LIKE NAZIS.
  - cbnotfromthere 7y ago
henearkr 7y ago
Well, the reality is oddly close to the fantasy, actually. According to Wikipedia (Origin_of_water_on_Earth): > The region of the protoplanetary disk closest to the Sun was very hot early in the history of the Solar System, and it is not feasible that oceans of water condensed with the Earth as it formed. Further from the young Sun where temperatures were cooler, water could condense and form icy planetesimals. The boundary of the region where ice could form in the early Solar System is known as the frost line (or snow line), and is located in the modern asteroid belt, between about 2.7 and 3.1 astronomical units (AU) from the Sun.[18][19] It is therefore necessary that objects forming beyond the frost line–such as comets, trans-Neptunian objects, and water-rich meteoroids (protoplanets)–delivered water to Earth.

42 points by lermontov 7y ago

I remember reading about how hitler supported missions to Tibet in search of a superweapon/power that will take the riech further

thepaperone 7y ago
Then you'd believe anything. They were studying genealogy as the Aryans that they claimed descent also conquered that region in prehistory.

Nasrudith 7y ago

Really totalitarians are all about believing their own flattering lies. Witness the "foes are strong and weak at the same time" hallmark and notice how incoherent and terrible their estimation of foes are. It is "good" at justifying travesties but incoherent doublethink doesn't lend well to strategy.

vkou 7y ago
Plenty of non-totalitarian groups display these kinds of cognitive dissonances. This is not a unique, or even particularly noteworthy trait. It has little to no descriptive power.

empath75 7y ago

They present it as if it’s ridiculous (and it is) but is it any more ridiculous than the mainstream creation myths that millions and millions of completely sane and rational people believe or claim to believe now?

ouid 7y ago
just because they're in the majority doesn't mean they're sane, imo.
- rsynnott 7y ago
  I’m fairly sure the majority of people don’t believe in literalist young earth creationism. It’s mostly a thing in certain Protestant sects, and regionally (especially in Turkey) in Islam. If you’re talking about the vaguer “evolution happens, but, er, maybe a deity did something non-specific about it”, then that’s more common, granted.
  - galaxyLogic 7y ago
    I never quite understood why many religious people have a problem with Evolution. If God created everything, surely he could create Evolution as well.
    - nealeratzlaff 7y ago
      From a lot of otherwise science-accepting people I grew up with, the issue isn't that penguins or insects adapted to their environment in unique ways. The issue lies in humans coming from monkeys. People I've known have a hard time with us not being created as special companions for the creator.
      - galaxyLogic 7y ago
        I think this ideology is partly because being a God's special companion means you can rule over others. So it's a convenient patriarchal fiction for many who want to rule over others, with God on Their Side.
    - djokkataja 7y ago
      I think it's about the sense of personal meaning and importance one gets: if God personally crafted you down to the tips of your toes, that makes you feel more important and like your life is more meaningful than if God created some system (evolution) which just happened to eventually result in you at the current point in time.
gumby 7y ago
And the integration of religious rituals and beliefs into supposedly secular governments? Many us government ceremonies begin with a religious guru (e.g. congressional chaplain opening prayer) and have for decades. Occult iconography and religious inscriptions appear on instruments of government like banknotes, buildings and the like.

galaxyLogic 7y ago

Totalitarianism has to rely on lies. If people knew the truth and especially if everybody knew that everybody else also knows the truth they would surely revolt. The Emperor's New Clothes. The main lie about totalitarianism is that some people are inherently entitled to rule over others. The extra totally crazy lies are kind of a Canary in Coalmine, does anybody dare to confront them? If not then the big lie about the power of the totalitarian government is safe too.

naringas 7y ago

there is a group of conspiracy theories around the idea the all those "scientific occultism" and "psychological warfare" ventures continued in the USA among programs such as MKULTRA and others (say the theories) not yet declassified because they were more successful. I suppose you could categorize these close to "Hitler retired in Argentina" and similar "Nazism went on" conspiracies.

galaxyLogic 7y ago
To quote a famous movie: The biggest stunt Devil ever played on us was he made us believe he doesn't exist. "Nazism" is still going on. Nazism is basically the same thing as totalitarianism in general. It never went away in many parts of the world. There are even Neo-Nazis in the USA.
- aksss 7y ago
  The Nazi party implemented a totalitarian form of government. Totalitarianism predated Nazis and is still a common form of government around the world. Classic case of "A is an example of B, but not all B are A". E.g. calling Stalin a Nazi would be inaccurate. He fought Nazis, but was still a totalitarian of the highest order, arguably with a more heinous legacy (if measured in body count, geographic impact, duration of influence). Assad is a current totalitarian, along with many regimes in Africa. Describing these as regimes as Nazis would be a very inarticulate description, even though I'd get your point ("he bad").
  - galaxyLogic 7y ago
    I think the differences between different totalitarian governments is of little significance. What is important is that they all want to eradicate democratic processes as much as possible. So whether you call them "Fascists" (in Italy) or "Nazis" in Germany or "Stalinist" (in Soviet Union) is fine, but really they all are more or less the same, authoritarian, totalitarian, anti-democratic. That is why Neo-Nazis call themselves Neo-Nazis. They want to be LIKE NAZIS.
- cbnotfromthere 7y ago

henearkr 7y ago

Well, the reality is oddly close to the fantasy, actually. According to Wikipedia (Origin_of_water_on_Earth): > The region of the protoplanetary disk closest to the Sun was very hot early in the history of the Solar System, and it is not feasible that oceans of water condensed with the Earth as it formed. Further from the young Sun where temperatures were cooler, water could condense and form icy planetesimals. The boundary of the region where ice could form in the early Solar System is known as the frost line (or snow line), and is located in the modern asteroid belt, between about 2.7 and 3.1 astronomical units (AU) from the Sun.[18][19] It is therefore necessary that objects forming beyond the frost line–such as comets, trans-Neptunian objects, and water-rich meteoroids (protoplanets)–delivered water to Earth.