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Doing awful compared to what? The person I replied to said their municipal water supply was poisoning kids, which is an anecdote that doesn't represent most mu

Doing awful compared to what? The person I replied to said their municipal water supply was poisoning kids, which is an anecdote that doesn't represent most municipal water supplies. Now you're moving the goal posts to water main breaks for some reason when the point in the first place was that municipal internet is successful.

rayiner 7y ago
The American Society of Civil Engineers gives our water infrastructure a “D.” That’s what I mean by “doing awful.” Poisoning kids with lead is one particular problem, that’s actually fairly common: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/lead-in-americas-water-systems-is-a-national-problem/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/lead-in-americas-water-systems-... Safe Drinking Water Act violations are rampant among municipal water utilities: https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/city-new-york-comply-federal-safe-drinking-water-act-and-prevent-contamination-citys; https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/city-new-york-comply-federa... https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/12/climate/drinking-water-safety.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/12/climate/drinking-water-sa... The trillions of gallons of water lost to leaks is another piece of the puzzle, wasting a natural resource due to poor maintenance. Municipal sewer systems are another huge problem. They release enormous amounts of untreated sewage into waterways each year, because municipalities haven’t invested in capacity and rainwater separation: https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/09/americas-sewage-crisis-public-health/405541/ https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/09/ameri... There are isolated instances of successful municipal broadband, but hardly enough to say that the concept is “successful.” (We have some municipal cable systems on the eastern shore of Maryland. They were good at one time, but underinvestment has resulted in speeds falling behind over the years. Underinvestment is the same problem that plagues municipal water utilities.) Most successful broadband networks around the world aren’t municipal services. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/jul/10/uk-slips-to-35th-in-global-table-of-broadband-speeds https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/jul/10/uk-slips-... Our privatized system does pretty well, doing better than France, Germany, the U.K., and Italy (which together have half the EU’s population). Most of the top countries, like Singapore and Norway, similarly rely on private companies. Part of Sweden (Stockholm) arguably has a municipal system, except it’s not like one that would ever be politically viable in the US. (The utility is publicly owned but not politically operated. They built out based on revenue potential and demand, not mandates to cover everyone. Imagine a US municipal utility that covered rich neighborhoods first and took 20 years to get around to wiring up poor neighborhoods.)
- bobthepanda 7y ago
  It‘s worth noting that ASCE has an incentive to parrot out bad infrastructure reports, since the employment of their members can be boosted by big pushes to repair „bad“ infrastructure. A few years ago Chuck Marohn of Strong Towns pointed out that the ASCE was asking to invest more in roads than the economic benefits that would be realized from them, even according to ASCE‘s numbers. https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2017/3/12/revisiting-the-asce-infrastructure-cult https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2017/3/12/revisiting-the...
- BubRoss 7y ago
  > There are isolated instances of successful municipal broadband There are lots of successes, Colorado, Minneapolis, Kansas City, Chattanooga etc. and those are just in the US. It seems like you have some sort of axe to grind, going on huge rants about water and sewers. > Most of the top countries, like Singapore and Norway, similarly rely on private companies Interesting you mention that, since the government layed down all the fiber and lots of small startup companies just ran the endpoints. This example couldn't be more contrary to what you are claiming.

rayiner 7y ago

The American Society of Civil Engineers gives our water infrastructure a “D.” That’s what I mean by “doing awful.” Poisoning kids with lead is one particular problem, that’s actually fairly common: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/lead-in-americas-water-systems-is-a-national-problem/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/lead-in-americas-water-systems-... Safe Drinking Water Act violations are rampant among municipal water utilities: https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/city-new-york-comply-federal-safe-drinking-water-act-and-prevent-contamination-citys; https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/city-new-york-comply-federa... https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/12/climate/drinking-water-safety.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/12/climate/drinking-water-sa... The trillions of gallons of water lost to leaks is another piece of the puzzle, wasting a natural resource due to poor maintenance. Municipal sewer systems are another huge problem. They release enormous amounts of untreated sewage into waterways each year, because municipalities haven’t invested in capacity and rainwater separation: https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/09/americas-sewage-crisis-public-health/405541/ https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/09/ameri... There are isolated instances of successful municipal broadband, but hardly enough to say that the concept is “successful.” (We have some municipal cable systems on the eastern shore of Maryland. They were good at one time, but underinvestment has resulted in speeds falling behind over the years. Underinvestment is the same problem that plagues municipal water utilities.) Most successful broadband networks around the world aren’t municipal services. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/jul/10/uk-slips-to-35th-in-global-table-of-broadband-speeds https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/jul/10/uk-slips-... Our privatized system does pretty well, doing better than France, Germany, the U.K., and Italy (which together have half the EU’s population). Most of the top countries, like Singapore and Norway, similarly rely on private companies. Part of Sweden (Stockholm) arguably has a municipal system, except it’s not like one that would ever be politically viable in the US. (The utility is publicly owned but not politically operated. They built out based on revenue potential and demand, not mandates to cover everyone. Imagine a US municipal utility that covered rich neighborhoods first and took 20 years to get around to wiring up poor neighborhoods.)

bobthepanda 7y ago
It‘s worth noting that ASCE has an incentive to parrot out bad infrastructure reports, since the employment of their members can be boosted by big pushes to repair „bad“ infrastructure. A few years ago Chuck Marohn of Strong Towns pointed out that the ASCE was asking to invest more in roads than the economic benefits that would be realized from them, even according to ASCE‘s numbers. https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2017/3/12/revisiting-the-asce-infrastructure-cult https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2017/3/12/revisiting-the...
BubRoss 7y ago
> There are isolated instances of successful municipal broadband There are lots of successes, Colorado, Minneapolis, Kansas City, Chattanooga etc. and those are just in the US. It seems like you have some sort of axe to grind, going on huge rants about water and sewers. > Most of the top countries, like Singapore and Norway, similarly rely on private companies Interesting you mention that, since the government layed down all the fiber and lots of small startup companies just ran the endpoints. This example couldn't be more contrary to what you are claiming.