6 ms·

I regret taking 23&me test, I don’t think my dna is in safe hands.

therealx 7y ago
I wanted to have it done so badly, but now I'm with you. Anyone have a cost on analyzing your DNA privately? Then the breach is just you+1, and you could use a fake name (I know, I know, that isn't foolproof when DNA is involved)
- jklehm 7y ago
  ~ $2000 for whole genome sequencing (WGS). Whole exome sequencing is cheaper but much less precise, ~$700.
- GnarfGnarf 7y ago
  Your DNA, in isolation, is not very useful to you (other than medical). The idea is to find relatives by matching segments of DNA with other people.
  - IggleSniggle 7y ago
    The medical part was the only part I was ever interested in
- virusduck 7y ago
  For what 23andme does, a couple hundred probably, maybe under 100 if you went in with several people. You could have your whole genome sequenced, the materials and service cost would be in the neighborhood of $7000 commercially. Data analysis costs vary widely, depending on what you want.
  - enceladus_ice 7y ago
    For a while Veritas claimed to offer full genome sequencing for $1000, but I believe they've recently reduced the price to $600. Also, in refreshing my memory on this company with some light research, I found this published 40 minutes ago: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-11-06/breach-at-dna-test-firm-veritas-exposed-customer-information https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-11-06/breach-at... Whoops!
  - eridan2 7y ago
    399 euro at DanteLabs: https://www.dantelabs.com/products/whole-genome-sequencing?variant=30759474593927 https://www.dantelabs.com/products/whole-genome-sequencing?v...
    - ccffpphh 7y ago
      That's awesome. Do they have a good track record of privacy? I read what they have on their site, but I can't just take them at face value with something as valuable as a whole genome.
- ccffpphh 7y ago
  I literally looked this up last night for personal interest. Allegedly Texas A&M will do it for $800. A whole genome sequence for a human. https://www.txgen.tamu.edu/new-novaseq-pricing-25feb2019/ https://www.txgen.tamu.edu/new-novaseq-pricing-25feb2019/
MaupitiBlue 7y ago
I’m reluctant to take it, but then I wonder if a few of my close relatives have already taken it, isn’t the horse mostly out of the barn already?
- GnarfGnarf 7y ago
  Yes, the Golden State Killer never submitted his DNA. He was matched from his relatives' DNA.
bliteben 7y ago
It's literally ran by Sergey Brin's wife. Some day your data will be part of Google. I'd say we are still a ways off from connecting DNA to advertising, but I'm sure google will "boldly" take us there.
- harikb 7y ago
  Oh god! They divorced in 2015. I am sure if Google had any such plans, it is just as likely with any other CEO up there. Let us worry about real conflict of interest happening elsewhere in Politics, Climate change etc which might dooms us all before these...
  - johnnycab 7y ago
    >Oh god! They divorced in 2015. I am sure if Google had any such plans, it is just as likely with any other CEO up there. Any subsequent marital issues or extracurricular activities of the individuals concerned cannot erase the fact that the venture was literally bootstrapped by Sergey Brin and Google. https://techcrunch.com/2009/06/18/all-in-the-family-sergey-brin-loans-23andme-10-million-and-google-ponies-up-26-million/ https://techcrunch.com/2009/06/18/all-in-the-family-sergey-b...
    - mixmastamyk 7y ago
      Indeed, and it’s not like a billion dollars in google cash couldn’t paper over any disagreement, no matter how ugly.
- sorenjan 7y ago
  I guess you missed that Sergey had an affair with a young Google employee and divorced Anne Wojcicki. Since then he's remarried another woman, and they have a child together. https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2014/04/sergey-brin-amanda-rosenberg-affair https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2014/04/sergey-brin-amanda-...
ransom1538 7y ago
Well at least you had a choice. It wasn't like your parents took it.
- Dirlewanger 7y ago
  Some of us had non-tech-savvy siblings take it and only bring it up in casual conversation months later though...
shawnz 7y ago
23andme claims the following: > 23andMe chooses to use all practical legal and administrative resources to resist requests from law enforcement, and we do not share customer data with any public databases, or with entities that may increase the risk of law enforcement access. See: https://www.23andme.com/law-enforcement-guide/ https://www.23andme.com/law-enforcement-guide/ The GSK (EDIT: their 4th cousin) actually used GEDmatch which is a service that openly cooperates with law enforcement.
- tantalor 7y ago
  > GSK actually used GEDmatch GSK did not actually use GEDmatch, but his 4th cousins did. The website identified 10 to 20 distant relatives of the Golden State Killer's (sharing the same great-great-great grandparents) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_State_Killer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_State_Killer
- plughs 7y ago
  At the risk of sounding overly cynical I'm going to sound overly cynical - I don't think that statement is worth the pixels it's activating. They are going to say whatever they need to say to keep the money rolling in. It could be a lie, it could be something that changes tomorrow without notification. They don't care because why should they?
  - shawnz 7y ago
    Why would they care about saying it and not care about doing it? Obviously they've identified that their customers value those protections, so if they were demonstrated to be lying about it or changed their policy in the future don't you expect that they'd risk losing the customers who made the choice to use 23andme based on their progressive law enforcement policy?
    - tro7ghor4 7y ago
      > Why would they care about saying it and not care about doing it? Doesn't this argument imply that a company would never lie? > don't you expect that they'd risk losing the customers This is a calculated risk. First, they have to be exposed. Second, their excuses have to be denied. Third, their transgressions have to enter the public sphere. Fourth, the public at large has to be made aware. Fifth, the public has to care about it. Of course, those who have already uploaded their DNA are out of luck. Maybe the company loses some "potential" customers. But the risk is always worth it, because in the end, everything stops at number 2: National Security and Law Enforcement are a cover to allow the authorities to do basically anything with impunity. Going back to: > 23andMe chooses to use all practical legal and administrative resources to resist requests from law enforcement, and we do not share customer data with any public databases, or with entities that may increase the risk of law enforcement access. Note the word "practical". So if they disclose something, it was because it was "impractical" not to. Oh well.
bart_spoon 7y ago
You can delete your data fairly easily from their website. Takes about 30 seconds. Of course this assumes your data hasn't been leaked elsewhere, and that they are compliant.
- salawat 7y ago
  Many systems don't actually delete data; they set a "deleted" flag that often causes the system to behave as if it did from the customer's point of view, but the data stays in the database for perpetuity. That means in all likelihood it is still there, and may actually still be being served to other users.
  - vageli 7y ago
    > Many systems don't actually delete data; they set a "deleted" flag that often causes the system to behave as if it did from the customer's point of view, but the data stays in the database for perpetuity. > That means in all likelihood it is still there, and may actually still be being served to other users. Thank goodness things like CCPA will change this.
gerbilly 7y ago
Is there some way to take the 23&me test anonymously? Perhaps a prepaid credit card bought with cash and having the kit mailed to a PO box?
- LinuxBender 7y ago
  No. Once someone has your DNA, there is nothing anonymous. You would need your own home lab kit that can do all of the diagnosis in your home, without being connected to any external networks at all.
  - gerbilly 7y ago
    Right, but couldn't you just give them a fake name and use a PO box, or am I missing something?
    - LinuxBender 7y ago
      Sure, but you would be giving them your DNA, which can be mapped back to you through other peoples DNA that are in any way related to you. What I am saying is, that once someone else has your DNA, all aspects of anonymity are gone. To reduce exposing "who" you are, then you would have to ensure that nobody currently related to you, or future offspring, ever get their DNA stored, are never arrested, are never in a medical facility that stores DNA samples, and so on. You would also want to verify that nobody related to you has ever been arrested or provided their DNA willingly or otherwise. DNA can also be used in conjunction with computer modeling to draw a picture of approximately what you look like. That image can be compared to state ID card data. This was done for a brief period in Japan, using chewing gum stuck to bus stop benches, to show off their software. Here [1] is one example from 2013. In summary, to remain anonymous, you would need a kit that you operate at home, that does 100% of the diagnosis and reporting in your home, with no DNA and no data leaving your home whatsoever. [1] - https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/creepy-or-cool-portraits-derived-from-the-dna-in-hair-and-gum-found-in-public-places-50266864/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/creepy-or-cool...
    - isbvhodnvemrwvn 7y ago

I wanted to have it done so badly, but now I'm with you. Anyone have a cost on analyzing your DNA privately? Then the breach is just you+1, and you could use a fake name (I know, I know, that isn't foolproof when DNA is involved)

jklehm 7y ago
~ $2000 for whole genome sequencing (WGS). Whole exome sequencing is cheaper but much less precise, ~$700.
GnarfGnarf 7y ago
Your DNA, in isolation, is not very useful to you (other than medical). The idea is to find relatives by matching segments of DNA with other people.
- IggleSniggle 7y ago
  The medical part was the only part I was ever interested in
virusduck 7y ago
For what 23andme does, a couple hundred probably, maybe under 100 if you went in with several people. You could have your whole genome sequenced, the materials and service cost would be in the neighborhood of $7000 commercially. Data analysis costs vary widely, depending on what you want.
- enceladus_ice 7y ago
  For a while Veritas claimed to offer full genome sequencing for $1000, but I believe they've recently reduced the price to $600. Also, in refreshing my memory on this company with some light research, I found this published 40 minutes ago: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-11-06/breach-at-dna-test-firm-veritas-exposed-customer-information https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-11-06/breach-at... Whoops!
- eridan2 7y ago
  399 euro at DanteLabs: https://www.dantelabs.com/products/whole-genome-sequencing?variant=30759474593927 https://www.dantelabs.com/products/whole-genome-sequencing?v...
  - ccffpphh 7y ago
    That's awesome. Do they have a good track record of privacy? I read what they have on their site, but I can't just take them at face value with something as valuable as a whole genome.
ccffpphh 7y ago
I literally looked this up last night for personal interest. Allegedly Texas A&M will do it for $800. A whole genome sequence for a human. https://www.txgen.tamu.edu/new-novaseq-pricing-25feb2019/ https://www.txgen.tamu.edu/new-novaseq-pricing-25feb2019/

MaupitiBlue 7y ago

I’m reluctant to take it, but then I wonder if a few of my close relatives have already taken it, isn’t the horse mostly out of the barn already?

GnarfGnarf 7y ago
Yes, the Golden State Killer never submitted his DNA. He was matched from his relatives' DNA.

bliteben 7y ago

It's literally ran by Sergey Brin's wife. Some day your data will be part of Google. I'd say we are still a ways off from connecting DNA to advertising, but I'm sure google will "boldly" take us there.

harikb 7y ago
Oh god! They divorced in 2015. I am sure if Google had any such plans, it is just as likely with any other CEO up there. Let us worry about real conflict of interest happening elsewhere in Politics, Climate change etc which might dooms us all before these...
- johnnycab 7y ago
  >Oh god! They divorced in 2015. I am sure if Google had any such plans, it is just as likely with any other CEO up there. Any subsequent marital issues or extracurricular activities of the individuals concerned cannot erase the fact that the venture was literally bootstrapped by Sergey Brin and Google. https://techcrunch.com/2009/06/18/all-in-the-family-sergey-brin-loans-23andme-10-million-and-google-ponies-up-26-million/ https://techcrunch.com/2009/06/18/all-in-the-family-sergey-b...
  - mixmastamyk 7y ago
    Indeed, and it’s not like a billion dollars in google cash couldn’t paper over any disagreement, no matter how ugly.
sorenjan 7y ago
I guess you missed that Sergey had an affair with a young Google employee and divorced Anne Wojcicki. Since then he's remarried another woman, and they have a child together. https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2014/04/sergey-brin-amanda-rosenberg-affair https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2014/04/sergey-brin-amanda-...

ransom1538 7y ago

Well at least you had a choice. It wasn't like your parents took it.

Dirlewanger 7y ago
Some of us had non-tech-savvy siblings take it and only bring it up in casual conversation months later though...

shawnz 7y ago

23andme claims the following: > 23andMe chooses to use all practical legal and administrative resources to resist requests from law enforcement, and we do not share customer data with any public databases, or with entities that may increase the risk of law enforcement access. See: https://www.23andme.com/law-enforcement-guide/ https://www.23andme.com/law-enforcement-guide/ The GSK (EDIT: their 4th cousin) actually used GEDmatch which is a service that openly cooperates with law enforcement.

tantalor 7y ago
> GSK actually used GEDmatch GSK did not actually use GEDmatch, but his 4th cousins did. The website identified 10 to 20 distant relatives of the Golden State Killer's (sharing the same great-great-great grandparents) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_State_Killer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_State_Killer
plughs 7y ago
At the risk of sounding overly cynical I'm going to sound overly cynical - I don't think that statement is worth the pixels it's activating. They are going to say whatever they need to say to keep the money rolling in. It could be a lie, it could be something that changes tomorrow without notification. They don't care because why should they?
- shawnz 7y ago
  Why would they care about saying it and not care about doing it? Obviously they've identified that their customers value those protections, so if they were demonstrated to be lying about it or changed their policy in the future don't you expect that they'd risk losing the customers who made the choice to use 23andme based on their progressive law enforcement policy?
  - tro7ghor4 7y ago
    > Why would they care about saying it and not care about doing it? Doesn't this argument imply that a company would never lie? > don't you expect that they'd risk losing the customers This is a calculated risk. First, they have to be exposed. Second, their excuses have to be denied. Third, their transgressions have to enter the public sphere. Fourth, the public at large has to be made aware. Fifth, the public has to care about it. Of course, those who have already uploaded their DNA are out of luck. Maybe the company loses some "potential" customers. But the risk is always worth it, because in the end, everything stops at number 2: National Security and Law Enforcement are a cover to allow the authorities to do basically anything with impunity. Going back to: > 23andMe chooses to use all practical legal and administrative resources to resist requests from law enforcement, and we do not share customer data with any public databases, or with entities that may increase the risk of law enforcement access. Note the word "practical". So if they disclose something, it was because it was "impractical" not to. Oh well.

bart_spoon 7y ago

You can delete your data fairly easily from their website. Takes about 30 seconds. Of course this assumes your data hasn't been leaked elsewhere, and that they are compliant.

salawat 7y ago
Many systems don't actually delete data; they set a "deleted" flag that often causes the system to behave as if it did from the customer's point of view, but the data stays in the database for perpetuity. That means in all likelihood it is still there, and may actually still be being served to other users.
- vageli 7y ago
  > Many systems don't actually delete data; they set a "deleted" flag that often causes the system to behave as if it did from the customer's point of view, but the data stays in the database for perpetuity. > That means in all likelihood it is still there, and may actually still be being served to other users. Thank goodness things like CCPA will change this.

gerbilly 7y ago

Is there some way to take the 23&me test anonymously? Perhaps a prepaid credit card bought with cash and having the kit mailed to a PO box?

LinuxBender 7y ago
No. Once someone has your DNA, there is nothing anonymous. You would need your own home lab kit that can do all of the diagnosis in your home, without being connected to any external networks at all.
- gerbilly 7y ago
  Right, but couldn't you just give them a fake name and use a PO box, or am I missing something?
  - LinuxBender 7y ago
    Sure, but you would be giving them your DNA, which can be mapped back to you through other peoples DNA that are in any way related to you. What I am saying is, that once someone else has your DNA, all aspects of anonymity are gone. To reduce exposing "who" you are, then you would have to ensure that nobody currently related to you, or future offspring, ever get their DNA stored, are never arrested, are never in a medical facility that stores DNA samples, and so on. You would also want to verify that nobody related to you has ever been arrested or provided their DNA willingly or otherwise. DNA can also be used in conjunction with computer modeling to draw a picture of approximately what you look like. That image can be compared to state ID card data. This was done for a brief period in Japan, using chewing gum stuck to bus stop benches, to show off their software. Here [1] is one example from 2013. In summary, to remain anonymous, you would need a kit that you operate at home, that does 100% of the diagnosis and reporting in your home, with no DNA and no data leaving your home whatsoever. [1] - https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/creepy-or-cool-portraits-derived-from-the-dna-in-hair-and-gum-found-in-public-places-50266864/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/creepy-or-cool...
  - isbvhodnvemrwvn 7y ago