18 ms·

If the safety driver had been paying attention to the road instead of his phone, they might have been able to break in time so that this woman did not get hit.

Filligree 7y ago
Human minds don't work that way. Paying continuous attention to a vehicle you're not controlling is quite simply impossible, and if safety relies on it then your safety system is broken.
- jimmaswell 7y ago
  Human minds don't work that way. Paying continuous attention to an airplane you're not controlling is quite simply impossible, and if the function of a copilot relies on it then airlines are broken. People are tasked with monitoring things all the time. It's not some brand new impossible task.
  - Filligree 7y ago
    There's a critical difference between airplanes and cars. When flying an airplane, very few emergencies ever require action faster than "Couple of seconds" -- and any procedure which does require such will be thrown out at first opportunity.
MereInterest 7y ago
Possible, but should not be relied upon. Even in cases where the driver knows that a handoff to manual control will occur, it takes a significant amount of time to mentally switch from being a passenger to being a driver. For cases where the AI knows it isn't performing well, such as heavy rain or snow, it makes sense to handoff. For anything that happens on shorter than a 10 second timeframe, the AI must be able to handle it, because the human cannot switch modes that quickly.
KeithBrink 7y ago
The interview with the driver by the NTSB is interesting if you want more details from the driver's side of the story: https://dms.ntsb.gov/pubdms/search/document.cfm?docID=477745&docketID=62978&mkey=96894 https://dms.ntsb.gov/pubdms/search/document.cfm?docID=477745... You can also see the detailed report from the NTSB which will go through about everything you would want to know about the actual driver and her reaction: https://dms.ntsb.gov/pubdms/search/document.cfm?docID=477743&docketID=62978&mkey=96894 https://dms.ntsb.gov/pubdms/search/document.cfm?docID=477743... Particularly of note is that Hulu was streaming video on her phone until about 1 minute after the crash (page 11 of the report).
- rideontime 7y ago
  Also of note from those documents: * Uber had previously staffed each car with two operators, allowing one to keep their eyes on the road while the other took notes. * Forthcoming performance metrics for operators would include "the VOs ability to keep the SDV in autonomous mode as long as possible unless there is a Fleet Desk support issue (software issue)." Obviously not as relevant to this particular case as the Hulu streaming, but to me these details suggest safety isn't their highest priority.
- jcranmer 7y ago
  One of the most terrifying lines in those documents to me is this: > According to Uber ATG, the SDS did not have the capability to classify an object as a pedestrian unless that object was near a crosswalk. Jaywalking is extremely common. I've seen pedestrians jaywalk a 45mph 6-lane road, with no median to speak of. Anyone with driving experience should know that pedestrians can occur even with no crosswalk, so it boggles my mind that any engineer would sign off on such a decision.

Filligree 7y ago

Human minds don't work that way. Paying continuous attention to a vehicle you're not controlling is quite simply impossible, and if safety relies on it then your safety system is broken.

jimmaswell 7y ago
Human minds don't work that way. Paying continuous attention to an airplane you're not controlling is quite simply impossible, and if the function of a copilot relies on it then airlines are broken. People are tasked with monitoring things all the time. It's not some brand new impossible task.
- Filligree 7y ago
  There's a critical difference between airplanes and cars. When flying an airplane, very few emergencies ever require action faster than "Couple of seconds" -- and any procedure which does require such will be thrown out at first opportunity.

MereInterest 7y ago

Possible, but should not be relied upon. Even in cases where the driver knows that a handoff to manual control will occur, it takes a significant amount of time to mentally switch from being a passenger to being a driver. For cases where the AI knows it isn't performing well, such as heavy rain or snow, it makes sense to handoff. For anything that happens on shorter than a 10 second timeframe, the AI must be able to handle it, because the human cannot switch modes that quickly.

KeithBrink 7y ago

The interview with the driver by the NTSB is interesting if you want more details from the driver's side of the story: https://dms.ntsb.gov/pubdms/search/document.cfm?docID=477745&docketID=62978&mkey=96894 https://dms.ntsb.gov/pubdms/search/document.cfm?docID=477745... You can also see the detailed report from the NTSB which will go through about everything you would want to know about the actual driver and her reaction: https://dms.ntsb.gov/pubdms/search/document.cfm?docID=477743&docketID=62978&mkey=96894 https://dms.ntsb.gov/pubdms/search/document.cfm?docID=477743... Particularly of note is that Hulu was streaming video on her phone until about 1 minute after the crash (page 11 of the report).

rideontime 7y ago
Also of note from those documents: * Uber had previously staffed each car with two operators, allowing one to keep their eyes on the road while the other took notes. * Forthcoming performance metrics for operators would include "the VOs ability to keep the SDV in autonomous mode as long as possible unless there is a Fleet Desk support issue (software issue)." Obviously not as relevant to this particular case as the Hulu streaming, but to me these details suggest safety isn't their highest priority.
jcranmer 7y ago
One of the most terrifying lines in those documents to me is this: > According to Uber ATG, the SDS did not have the capability to classify an object as a pedestrian unless that object was near a crosswalk. Jaywalking is extremely common. I've seen pedestrians jaywalk a 45mph 6-lane road, with no median to speak of. Anyone with driving experience should know that pedestrians can occur even with no crosswalk, so it boggles my mind that any engineer would sign off on such a decision.