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I'd imagine the major intelligence agencies have already started their own genetic databases, right? Being able to track down everyone at a genetic level is ins

I'd imagine the major intelligence agencies have already started their own genetic databases, right? Being able to track down everyone at a genetic level is insanely valuable data from a national security perspective. Given that the intelligence agencies regularly and aggressively hack every telecom and networking company out there, it's pretty likely that they have already hacked the commercial DNA databases, no? Why wouldn't they? I'd like to think there is someone out there trying to protect my data, but it's much more likely they are just aggregating everything into a single genome DB that will inevitably get hacked or leaked.

walrus01 7y ago
Shortly prior to its demise, the Stasi was collecting blood and hair samples and storing them in anticipation of future DNA profiling technology becoming available.
- vorpalhex 7y ago
  Out of personal interest, not doubt - do you have any sources handy?
  - tajd 7y ago
    I found "Stasiland" by Anna Funder a good read if you don't mind reading a more general history of the Stasi. There are a few examples in there I believe.
  - at-fates-hands 7y ago
    I'm not sure about the DNA sampling, but its been widely reported they did have large collections of "scent jars" which were just as powerful as having someone's DNA: The Stasi had a whole range of methods and means to try to track down people who said or did anything critical of the East German communist regime. Collecting scent samples was used to try to identify those, for example, who had distributed flyers or who wrote critical graffiti. When they found a piece of graffiti or a flyer then they took a dust cloth, which was usually yellow, and left it for a while lying next to the flyers covered by a protective piece of aluminum foil and then they had their sample. The cloth was then sealed in a pickling jar and stored. If the Stasi later came across a suspect in the process of the investigation, they tried to get a sample from this person as well -- of course, secretly. A trained dog was given the two smells, and if they matched, the Stasi had a concrete name. https://www.dw.com/en/the-stasi-had-a-giant-smell-register-of-dissidents/a-2555053 https://www.dw.com/en/the-stasi-had-a-giant-smell-register-o... Apparently back in 2007, German authorities were using this same method to track activists trying to disrupt the G8 Summit: In a reminder of methods used by the East German Stasi secret police, German authorities are collecting human scents to trace activists they believe may try to violently disrupt the G8 summit in June. It's proving highly controversial, and there's no scientific evidence that the method is infallible. https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/stasi-methods-used-to-track-g8-opponents-the-scent-of-terror-a-484561.html https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/stasi-methods-u...
    - boring_twenties 7y ago
      You can see a large collection of these scent jars in person if you visit the Stasi Museum in Leipzig: https://europeforvisitors.com/germany/leipzig/museum-runde-ecke.htm https://europeforvisitors.com/germany/leipzig/museum-runde-e...
    - Tomte 7y ago
      > "scent jars" Have a look at this scene from the fantastic film "The Lives of Others": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkRxvEjprBM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkRxvEjprBM
- opencl 7y ago
  DNA profiling technology did exist shortly before the end of the Stasi (the first use in criminal investigation was in 1987 [1]), though presumably they didn't have access to it. [1] http://aboutforensics.co.uk/colin-pitchfork/ http://aboutforensics.co.uk/colin-pitchfork/
ryanmercer 7y ago
In news coverage of drone strikes/bombings of sites thought to contain known terrorists, mostly high value targets, I've absolutely heard them say identified/confirmed by DNA. Here is the first example I could find: >A DNA sample from one of the men killed in the U.S. drone attack was successfully matched with a close relative of Mansour, the interior ministry statement said. https://www.foxnews.com/world/pakistan-dna-test-confirms-taliban-heads-death https://www.foxnews.com/world/pakistan-dna-test-confirms-tal...
- droithomme 7y ago
  They were also trying to locate bin Laden in Pakistan through use of sham vaccination programs that were actually taking DNA samples. As a result the loss of trust caused Polio to go from the cusp of eradication to back with a vengeance. I like the claims with al-Baghdadi's n-th death being DNA confirmed. US obtained a supposed blood sample of al-Baghdadi from his right hand man in return for a promise of $25 million and US residency for himself and his entire family. Then, someone in a tunnel, unseen by anyone other than a dog, was blown up by an explosive belt, leaving no remains but small chunks that could be identified. These were then DNA confirmed to be identical to whoever the blood sample was taken from.
  - nkrisc 7y ago
    What source have you read that said there were no remains? Depending on how exactly he blew himself up, there might very well be identifiable remains intact, such as extremities or even the head.
  - stef25 7y ago
    Not a blood sample (EDIT yes a blood sample). His underwear was stolen so his shart remnants could be DNA tested. This by someone close to him who wanted revenge and of course 25 mill. The mole was managed by the SDF who communicated with the US. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-50218637 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-50218637
    - droithomme 7y ago
ransom1538 7y ago
"I'd imagine the major intelligence agencies have already started their own genetic databases, right?" The gig is up. It's a law felons give their DNA in some jurisdictions. Felons have families. Felons have great grand mothers. Felons have 2nd cousins. There are 6.1 million felons. I'd image the US is pretty much mapped out by now. https://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/mandatory-dna-sampling-in-a-criminal-investigation.html https://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/mandatory-dna...
- reaperducer 7y ago
  Not just felons. Everybody. Some police agencies (NYC, for example) collect DNA samples on arrest. And if you're found not guilty, the arrest was wrong, or whatever, they still keep the DNA forever. [1] But it's not like they conduct knock-and-spit dragnets. Oh, wait... [2] Even worse is that social service agencies do it. Don't be born in California, because the fact that you suddenly exist means the state gets your DNA. [3] https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/16/nyregion/newyorktoday/nypd-dna-database.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/16/nyregion/newyorktoday/nyp... https://www.newsweek.com/police-dna-database-nypd-swab-testing-collection-new-york-1326722 https://www.newsweek.com/police-dna-database-nypd-swab-testi... https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2018/05/08/california-biobank-stores-baby-dna-access/ https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2018/05/08/california-biob...
  - devmunchies 7y ago
    I'm able to refuse the state/hospital in California to take blood samples, right?
    - Lammy 7y ago
      No, if you try to refuse you get another misdemeanor charge while they wait for a judge to sign the form compelling you to give a sample
      - devmunchies 7y ago
        How utterly depressing. Land of of free.
freeflight 7y ago
> Given that the intelligence agencies regularly and aggressively hack every telecom and networking company out there This is a common misconception, as long as we are talking US companies and US agencies, they don't need to do much of that, thanks to the third-party doctrine [0] they do not even need a legal warrant. Now add in the fact how popular ancestry tests have become, and how even that data is openly monetized, it's not that far of a reach to assume US intelligence agencies have been building their own aggregated DB. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third-party_doctrine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third-party_doctrine
ping_pong 7y ago
Major intelligence agencies have people working at all these companies like Google, Facebook, 23AndMe, Ancestry.com, etc with unfettered access. Just like how they infiltrated the nuclear programs of various countries and stole secrets, it's the same thing except 100x easier because the level of security is so much lower and easier to hack. If you don't think that squads of spies for Russia, China, the US, Israel, India AREN'T working at these companies you are woefully naive.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]

walrus01 7y ago

Shortly prior to its demise, the Stasi was collecting blood and hair samples and storing them in anticipation of future DNA profiling technology becoming available.

vorpalhex 7y ago
Out of personal interest, not doubt - do you have any sources handy?
- tajd 7y ago
  I found "Stasiland" by Anna Funder a good read if you don't mind reading a more general history of the Stasi. There are a few examples in there I believe.
- at-fates-hands 7y ago
  I'm not sure about the DNA sampling, but its been widely reported they did have large collections of "scent jars" which were just as powerful as having someone's DNA: The Stasi had a whole range of methods and means to try to track down people who said or did anything critical of the East German communist regime. Collecting scent samples was used to try to identify those, for example, who had distributed flyers or who wrote critical graffiti. When they found a piece of graffiti or a flyer then they took a dust cloth, which was usually yellow, and left it for a while lying next to the flyers covered by a protective piece of aluminum foil and then they had their sample. The cloth was then sealed in a pickling jar and stored. If the Stasi later came across a suspect in the process of the investigation, they tried to get a sample from this person as well -- of course, secretly. A trained dog was given the two smells, and if they matched, the Stasi had a concrete name. https://www.dw.com/en/the-stasi-had-a-giant-smell-register-of-dissidents/a-2555053 https://www.dw.com/en/the-stasi-had-a-giant-smell-register-o... Apparently back in 2007, German authorities were using this same method to track activists trying to disrupt the G8 Summit: In a reminder of methods used by the East German Stasi secret police, German authorities are collecting human scents to trace activists they believe may try to violently disrupt the G8 summit in June. It's proving highly controversial, and there's no scientific evidence that the method is infallible. https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/stasi-methods-used-to-track-g8-opponents-the-scent-of-terror-a-484561.html https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/stasi-methods-u...
  - boring_twenties 7y ago
    You can see a large collection of these scent jars in person if you visit the Stasi Museum in Leipzig: https://europeforvisitors.com/germany/leipzig/museum-runde-ecke.htm https://europeforvisitors.com/germany/leipzig/museum-runde-e...
  - Tomte 7y ago
    > "scent jars" Have a look at this scene from the fantastic film "The Lives of Others": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkRxvEjprBM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkRxvEjprBM
opencl 7y ago
DNA profiling technology did exist shortly before the end of the Stasi (the first use in criminal investigation was in 1987 [1]), though presumably they didn't have access to it. [1] http://aboutforensics.co.uk/colin-pitchfork/ http://aboutforensics.co.uk/colin-pitchfork/

ryanmercer 7y ago

In news coverage of drone strikes/bombings of sites thought to contain known terrorists, mostly high value targets, I've absolutely heard them say identified/confirmed by DNA. Here is the first example I could find: >A DNA sample from one of the men killed in the U.S. drone attack was successfully matched with a close relative of Mansour, the interior ministry statement said. https://www.foxnews.com/world/pakistan-dna-test-confirms-taliban-heads-death https://www.foxnews.com/world/pakistan-dna-test-confirms-tal...

droithomme 7y ago
They were also trying to locate bin Laden in Pakistan through use of sham vaccination programs that were actually taking DNA samples. As a result the loss of trust caused Polio to go from the cusp of eradication to back with a vengeance. I like the claims with al-Baghdadi's n-th death being DNA confirmed. US obtained a supposed blood sample of al-Baghdadi from his right hand man in return for a promise of $25 million and US residency for himself and his entire family. Then, someone in a tunnel, unseen by anyone other than a dog, was blown up by an explosive belt, leaving no remains but small chunks that could be identified. These were then DNA confirmed to be identical to whoever the blood sample was taken from.
- nkrisc 7y ago
  What source have you read that said there were no remains? Depending on how exactly he blew himself up, there might very well be identifiable remains intact, such as extremities or even the head.
- stef25 7y ago
  Not a blood sample (EDIT yes a blood sample). His underwear was stolen so his shart remnants could be DNA tested. This by someone close to him who wanted revenge and of course 25 mill. The mole was managed by the SDF who communicated with the US. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-50218637 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-50218637
  - droithomme 7y ago

ransom1538 7y ago

"I'd imagine the major intelligence agencies have already started their own genetic databases, right?" The gig is up. It's a law felons give their DNA in some jurisdictions. Felons have families. Felons have great grand mothers. Felons have 2nd cousins. There are 6.1 million felons. I'd image the US is pretty much mapped out by now. https://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/mandatory-dna-sampling-in-a-criminal-investigation.html https://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/mandatory-dna...

reaperducer 7y ago
Not just felons. Everybody. Some police agencies (NYC, for example) collect DNA samples on arrest. And if you're found not guilty, the arrest was wrong, or whatever, they still keep the DNA forever. [1] But it's not like they conduct knock-and-spit dragnets. Oh, wait... [2] Even worse is that social service agencies do it. Don't be born in California, because the fact that you suddenly exist means the state gets your DNA. [3] https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/16/nyregion/newyorktoday/nypd-dna-database.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/16/nyregion/newyorktoday/nyp... https://www.newsweek.com/police-dna-database-nypd-swab-testing-collection-new-york-1326722 https://www.newsweek.com/police-dna-database-nypd-swab-testi... https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2018/05/08/california-biobank-stores-baby-dna-access/ https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2018/05/08/california-biob...
- devmunchies 7y ago
  I'm able to refuse the state/hospital in California to take blood samples, right?
  - Lammy 7y ago
    No, if you try to refuse you get another misdemeanor charge while they wait for a judge to sign the form compelling you to give a sample
    - devmunchies 7y ago
      How utterly depressing. Land of of free.

freeflight 7y ago

> Given that the intelligence agencies regularly and aggressively hack every telecom and networking company out there This is a common misconception, as long as we are talking US companies and US agencies, they don't need to do much of that, thanks to the third-party doctrine [0] they do not even need a legal warrant. Now add in the fact how popular ancestry tests have become, and how even that data is openly monetized, it's not that far of a reach to assume US intelligence agencies have been building their own aggregated DB. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third-party_doctrine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third-party_doctrine

ping_pong 7y ago

Major intelligence agencies have people working at all these companies like Google, Facebook, 23AndMe, Ancestry.com, etc with unfettered access. Just like how they infiltrated the nuclear programs of various countries and stole secrets, it's the same thing except 100x easier because the level of security is so much lower and easier to hack. If you don't think that squads of spies for Russia, China, the US, Israel, India AREN'T working at these companies you are woefully naive.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]