5 ms·

The more interesting thing is github integration. Will this provide a more pleasant way to browse repositories online without having to clone locally?

skohan 7y ago
The premise of github integration scares me. What happens to open source software if the main way to interact with Github-hosted code becomes a Microsoft hosted web IDE, and everything else becomes a painful, second-class experience?
- dannyw 7y ago
  The threat of GitLab.
- userbinator 7y ago
  IMHO as long as Github still provides a git interface, that shouldn't be a problem.
  - skohan 7y ago
    Embrace, extend, extinguish. What if, for instance, they built a fully-integrated package management solution into Github+VSWeb which wasn't based on git? There are a million ways they could create soft vendor lock-in with value added features.
    - thrower123 7y ago
      Nobody is going to let them go back to TFS. Git has won, for good or for bad.
      - skohan 7y ago
        Git == GitHub for many, many developers. I wouldn't count it out as a possibility.
- Double_a_92 7y ago
  The git interface is still there... If that happens to suck compared to newer private solutions then it's just like that. What would to alternative be? Make it illegal for private companies to create more user friendly innovations?
  - skohan 7y ago
    I think it's fine for private companies to innovate. I think it's also important for us, as developers, to understand when those innovations might carry risks to our interests in the long-term, and weight that into our decision making as far as how we build software.
- cryptozeus 7y ago
  Vscode has been great open source tool and ms has been heavily investigating in open source community. I think it is safe to assume for now that they will leave git alone as is.
  - skohan 7y ago
    > Vscode has been great open source tool and ms has been heavily investigating in open source community. But why? Corporations rarely invest in projects which don't support their own self-interest. And why should they? Microsoft is not a charity. Microsoft owns github. Microsoft produces one of the most used code editors out there at the moment. Microsoft is heavily invested in the Linux foundation. It would be foolish to assume that such a massive corporation with a history of anti-consumer and anti-developer behavior would never leverage their position to their own benefit. What incentive does Microsoft have to act in a benevolent way?
- donmcronald 7y ago
  It worries me too. Why bother setting up a local dev environment if it's a single click to get up and going on GitHub, right? Everyone is too eager to set themselves up to be taken advantage of tomorrow as long as they can save a minute today, often by spending their employers' money. I wouldn't be surprised if eventually the free tier of GitHub comes with X free build minutes, X free Visual Studio Online minutes, etc.. That way you never learn to do anything for yourself and as soon as you need to scale up you're extremely vendor locked and overpaying for your tooling. Remember how everyone freaked out when JetBrains switched to their "subscription" pricing? They charge $650 / year for every IDE or $150 for the personal license. Visual Studio Online is around $1000 / year for a single editor if you figure a 2080 hour work year and there's no personal license.

skohan 7y ago

The premise of github integration scares me. What happens to open source software if the main way to interact with Github-hosted code becomes a Microsoft hosted web IDE, and everything else becomes a painful, second-class experience?

dannyw 7y ago
The threat of GitLab.
userbinator 7y ago
IMHO as long as Github still provides a git interface, that shouldn't be a problem.
- skohan 7y ago
  Embrace, extend, extinguish. What if, for instance, they built a fully-integrated package management solution into Github+VSWeb which wasn't based on git? There are a million ways they could create soft vendor lock-in with value added features.
  - thrower123 7y ago
    Nobody is going to let them go back to TFS. Git has won, for good or for bad.
    - skohan 7y ago
      Git == GitHub for many, many developers. I wouldn't count it out as a possibility.
Double_a_92 7y ago
The git interface is still there... If that happens to suck compared to newer private solutions then it's just like that. What would to alternative be? Make it illegal for private companies to create more user friendly innovations?
- skohan 7y ago
  I think it's fine for private companies to innovate. I think it's also important for us, as developers, to understand when those innovations might carry risks to our interests in the long-term, and weight that into our decision making as far as how we build software.
cryptozeus 7y ago
Vscode has been great open source tool and ms has been heavily investigating in open source community. I think it is safe to assume for now that they will leave git alone as is.
- skohan 7y ago
  > Vscode has been great open source tool and ms has been heavily investigating in open source community. But why? Corporations rarely invest in projects which don't support their own self-interest. And why should they? Microsoft is not a charity. Microsoft owns github. Microsoft produces one of the most used code editors out there at the moment. Microsoft is heavily invested in the Linux foundation. It would be foolish to assume that such a massive corporation with a history of anti-consumer and anti-developer behavior would never leverage their position to their own benefit. What incentive does Microsoft have to act in a benevolent way?
donmcronald 7y ago
It worries me too. Why bother setting up a local dev environment if it's a single click to get up and going on GitHub, right? Everyone is too eager to set themselves up to be taken advantage of tomorrow as long as they can save a minute today, often by spending their employers' money. I wouldn't be surprised if eventually the free tier of GitHub comes with X free build minutes, X free Visual Studio Online minutes, etc.. That way you never learn to do anything for yourself and as soon as you need to scale up you're extremely vendor locked and overpaying for your tooling. Remember how everyone freaked out when JetBrains switched to their "subscription" pricing? They charge $650 / year for every IDE or $150 for the personal license. Visual Studio Online is around $1000 / year for a single editor if you figure a 2080 hour work year and there's no personal license.